[QUOTE=Scarlett67]
Help me out, please: how do you pronounce “Elie Wiesel”? I’ve read a fair amount about him, but don’t recall hearing his name pronounced. I’m gonna guess “EEL-ie VEE-zel” (that’s the former German student in me talking). But there’s always the chance that he pronounces it differently.
[/QUOTE]
ELL-y vee-ZELL
[QUOTE=Mehitabel]
If Hitler couldn’t get Elie, this bastard can’t.
[/QUOTE]
Perfectly said. 
[QUOTE=Mehitabel]
If Hitler couldn’t get Elie, this bastard can’t.
But still, dammit! :mad:
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but… Elie is 78 years old now. It’s lucky that he’s a strong, healthy 78. Older folks can die from the shock of being the victims of muggings and such.
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
The very first time I ever heard about Holocaust deniers, I assumed it was “wishful thinking”-like people who were so overwhelmed and horrified by the very idea, that they refused to believe it happened. That sort of thing.
[/QUOTE]
I think the denial is more the work of antisemites and white supremacists who resent the amount of guilt-weight the Jews, and particularly the Israelis, have been able to milk out of the Holocaust. Also, denying it very slightly improves the possibility that it will happen again . . .
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
I think the denial is more the work of antisemites and white supremacists who resent the amount of guilt-weight the Jews, and particularly the Israelis, have been able to milk out of the Holocaust. Also, denying it very slightly improves the possibility that it will happen again . . .
[/QUOTE]
“Milk out of the Holocaust”?
The mind reels.
On edit- I hope your saying that is the point of view of the White Supremists etc…
going for the benefit of the doubt here…
[QUOTE=IvoryTowerDenizen]
“Milk out of the Holocaust”?
The mind reels.
On edit- I hope your saying that is the point of view of the White Supremists etc…
going for the benefit of the doubt here…
[/QUOTE]
Yes and no. I like Jews, generally speaking, and I have no respect for the WS POV; but even I am sick and tired of the guilt-tripping “There must never be another Holocaust, therefore anything Israel does is justified” meme. I hope you are too.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
I think the denial is more the work of antisemites and white supremacists who resent the amount of guilt-weight the Jews, and particularly the Israelis, have been able to milk out of the Holocaust.
[/QUOTE]
Boy, that must’ve been quite a harvest. But I agree with you about Israel sometimes getting too much slack for it’s behavior as a nation. Friends of mine who’ve been there tell me there is a two-tiered system, one for Jews, one for everyone else. That’s sad, and it’s unfortunate it can’t be addressed and talked about openly.
Israelis and Jews have plenty of reasons to be paranoid–there is a LOT of ugly anti-Semitism in the world still. Iranian newspapers routinely run the sorts of stories and editorial cartoons not seen anywhere since Nazi Germany. In the United States we talk about a “war on terrorism” almost abstractly; in Israel it’s a way of life. I’m not sure if these things are deliberately used as a cover for less savory aspects of Israeli society, or if the “two-tiered system” I talked about is a reflexive action by people who feel perpetually besieged, for good reason. Just like everything in the Middle East, there are no easy answers.
Wow. Pretty pathetic.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
ELL-y vee-ZELL
[/QUOTE]
Ah. Danke sehr.
[QUOTE=Kal]
Here’s a link to the discussion about this going on over at Metafilter. A link to the Ziopedia article is provided.
[/QUOTE]
. . . Brain hurt . . .
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Yes and no. I like Jews, generally speaking, and I have no respect for the WS POV; but even I am sick and tired of the guilt-tripping “There must never be another Holocaust, therefore anything Israel does is justified” meme. I hope you are too.
[/QUOTE]
I have to say, I’m an Israeli and I rarely encounter that “meme” (hate the word, incidentally). It’s just not the way we think. We have a name here for people who won’t shut up about the Holocaust: Americans.
Strange as it may seem, anti-semitism is a completely alien concept to most native-born Israelis.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
I think the denial is more the work of antisemites and white supremacists who resent the amount of guilt-weight the Jews, and particularly the Israelis, have been able to milk out of the Holocaust.
[/QUOTE]
It’s wonderful that you found a way to work this sentiment into a thread expressing outrage over an assault on a prominent writer and elderly Holocaust survivor. Perhaps no one should express revulsion over this incident, lest it be seen as “milking the Holocaust”.
That is beyond swell of you. :dubious:
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
It’s wonderful that you found a way to work this sentiment into a thread expressing outrage over an assault on a prominent writer and elderly Holocaust survivor. Perhaps no one should express revulsion over this incident, lest it be seen as “milking the Holocaust”.
That is beyond swell of you. :dubious:
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your reply, you articulated it better than I would have- I didn’t have the emotional energy to engage this attitude.
Gah. I think I might puke.
[QUOTE=lisacurl]
Yeah, but… Elie is 78 years old now. It’s lucky that he’s a strong, healthy 78. Older folks can die from the shock of being the victims of muggings and such.
[/QUOTE]
If you read some of his autobiographical works (can’t remember which ones offhand) it is astonishing how strong he was an adolescent.
Upon further reflection-
What the fuck?!? Does Wiesel not travel with a security detail? I can’t believe that this guy didn’t get smothered once he put a hand on him.
I almost pitted this event myself. Each time I put fingers to keys the things that came out diminished me as much as the attacker.
I have spouted on and on here lately about how the world would be betted if we followed Jesus’s example of creative pacifism and radical, unconditional love.
Then someone attacks Elie Wiesel, and I want to cut out the attackers heart with a dull spoon.
Sometimes…meh…I dunno…
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
The very first time I ever heard about Holocaust deniers, I assumed it was “wishful thinking”-like people who were so overwhelmed and horrified by the very idea, that they refused to believe it happened. That sort of thing.
[/QUOTE]
There’s a much simpler explanation. Ninety per cent of what I’ve learned in the last five years comes from South Park. In the show about 9/11 conspiracy believers the recurring line was (I think it was Stan who kept saying it): One quarter of Americans are retarded.
[QUOTE=EJsGirl]
Upon further reflection-
What the fuck?!? Does Wiesel not travel with a security detail? I can’t believe that this guy didn’t get smothered once he put a hand on him.
[/QUOTE]
No, I occasionally go to events where people like Weisel speak. There are never any extra guards, just the usual person at the door to the building. And the people who go to these things are older, more intellectual less athletic, more likely to be female. And totally not prepared for something like this to happen.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
I think the denial is more the work of antisemites and white supremacists who resent the amount of guilt-weight the Jews, and particularly the Israelis, have been able to milk out of the Holocaust. Also, denying it very slightly improves the possibility that it will happen again . . .
[/QUOTE]
Wow, you really are a shithead, aren’t you?