Eliminating AIDS

AIDS is already at epidemic proportions in Africa, so could this be the next Bubonic Plague? I know that medical breakthroughs extend a person’s life if they are infected, but they will eventually die. I had an idea the other day on how we could eliminate the virus or at the very least, drastically reduce the spread. I know this wouldn’t work in a lot of the third world countries, but it could be feasable in some of the more industrialized countries. The question is would it be ethical? Please don’t judge me for suggesting this, it was merely an idea, and I wondered if it would ever work.

First of all, we would require by law that all citizens would be tested for the virus. Those that are HIV positive or that have full blown AIDS receive a small tattoo near their genitals. That way, the only way a person could tell if they were carrying the disease is if they were going to be intimate with them, and it wouldn’t cause people to discriminate them for employment.

I know this is a drastic measure, but could it work? Or is this entirely too discriminatory?

Without getting into civil liberties issues and costs, I’ll point out that HIV infection is undetectable for a goodly amount of time after infection.

Even if this weren’t the case, you’d have to test everybody on the same day, else someone could get infected between testing and tattooing. Just to be sure no one slipped through the cracks (which they would), you would have to put an OK tattoo on those that tested negative. Probably, you’d have to tattoo people immediately after the test, or somehow make sure they have no intimate contact between testing and tattooing.

I’ll stop here–sounds unworkable to me.

-VM

Whoo, I’m getting all light-headed… seeing Big Brother… seeing concentration camps… feeling dizzy…

Esprix

If AIDS is an epidemic then why don't we treat it like one? Many people with uncurable communicable diseases were placed in quarantine for the protection of the general population.

 Of course AIDS really isn't that easy to spread when compared to the whooping cough or enfluenza. AIDS is largely a disease that spreads because of irresponsible behavior. But even though we know how to prevent AIDS it doesn't appear to be slowing down enough, particularly in sub sahara Africa.

I don't think it'd be practical to round people with AIDS up and quarantine them. The cost in dollars and civil rights would probably not be worth it. We're much better off encouraging people to behave in a responsible manner.

Marc
PS: Before anyone jumps on me about my “irresponsible behavior” comment let me explain. In this day and age everyone in the US knows that having sex with multiple partners and sharing dirty needles increases your risk of getting AIDS. Therefore engageing in those activities is irresponsible. It doesn’t mean I think they deserve it.

PPS: I didn’t say unprotected sex because I’m not sure how effective things like condoms are when you have a whole bunch of partners.

PPPS: This is the first time my explanation for a post has been longer then the post. That is all.

I say we just quarantine Africa.

But seriously, I don’t think that Africa is a portend of what is to come in the rest of the world. the spread of AIDS threre occurs for different reasons: lack of knowledge, open sores, close living conditions, sexual mores…

THE best bet for AIDS is a cure. IT is like any other disease. Anyone tries to tattoo my nuts is going to encounter the 2nd amendment in action.

Bright boy, MGibson - you answered your own question.

Why don’t we quarantine AIDS cases?

You can give someone Bubonic Plague completely by accident, but AIDS you can’t - there is an specific action involved. Ignorance and irresponsible behavior is spreading this disease.

Of course, this may well only apply to first-world countries. I have no idea, nor can I speak of the situation in lesser developed countries like Africa. The spread of the disease there may very well be for completely different reasons. That said, there are still ways to prevent it from spreading. If we want this disease stopped, it can’t just be in the US or just in the third world, it’s got to be global.

Alas, I don’t see it happening any time soon, for apathy and economics and politics and whatnot, so a cure will probably be our best bet. I hope.

Esprix

I'm pretty sure that's what I just said. At least about the spread of it due to irresponsible behavior.
 I'm pretty sure most underdeveloped countries have a decent understanding of how it is spread. Unless AIDS is totally different I'm sure it spreads the same way there that it does here. Mainly through sex or IV drug use. What ways are there to prevent it other then informing the population?
Actually since this is a disease that is linked to mainly behavioral pattenrs it isn't hard for any country to curtail its spread. I don't think you'll stop it 100% but you should certainly see a marked decline in the number of new cases.

Marc

I wish Magic Johnson a long and healthy life.

Whatever he has (in the way of "bodily defenses), he looks pretty damn healthy for someone who was diagnosed HIV+ in 1991.

If we could just figure that out. . . .

Again, ignoring the civil rights issue, there are other practical concerns for this idea. Although they are pretty rare, false positives and false negatives do occur. There is also a period between contracting the virus and having it show up in a test, which Smartass mentioned.

I also know from quite delightful personal experience that it’s reeeaaaallll easy to have intercourse with someone without being particularly undressed, or even having your genitals available for visual inspection. I guess people could get in the habit of looking before they, uh, leap, but it would be all to easy for someone who doesn’t give a damn that they’re infected to spread the disease by hiding the tattoo. Prostitutes spring to mind.

Beadalin wrote:

Tattoos near the genital region would also be useless in preventing the spread of HIV through needle-sharing.

If you’re gonna label all the HIV-positive people and trample on their rights, you might as well go all the way. Put the tattoo on the forehead and the right hand, and include a “666” somewhere in the design – just to piss off the fundies. :wink:

Wiggum said:

Not unless it mutates into a form that is more communicable. Though, frankly, that possibility is a scary one.

Won’t we all?

Even third-world countries can do it. A few years ago, Uganda had (I believe) the highest rate of HIV infection in the world, about 25% of the general population. The government has since enacted an effective education campaign that has drastically reduced the number of new infections. There is, of course, still a terrible problem that Uganda will have to deal with for a long time yet to come (such as caring for AIDS patients and dealing with the thousands of orphans left by the disease), but things are most certainly improving.

Esprix, I agree wholeheartedly that one could draw a line of comparison between the idea in my OP and Nazi Germany, but when you get right down to it, it’s really comparing apples and oranges. The Jews were forced into concentration camps and viciously slaughtered by Hitler. I’m not suggesting putting AIDS patients into concentration camps or even quarantining them, but I’m merely suggesting a way in which they could be identified before a sexual encounter goes too far.

As I’m writing this, I’m thinking that maybe the tattooing thing is a bit extreme, but would mandatory AIDS tests raise awareness, and at the same time give those who are found positive the chance to cease their sexual bahavior of their own accord?

As far as educating the public as a way to curb AIDS, we’ve seen what good that does. People my age have been told about AIDS since junior high, but the irresponsible behavior continues. It’s just like smoking. People know it’s bad for them, and can cause a multitude of maladies, but no one thinks it can happen to them until it does. The tricky part about AIDS though is that unlike smoking, if a person doesn’t think it can happen to them, and it does, they may have already infected others. In a idealistic world, educating people as to the dangers of AIDS may be enough, but in the real world, it’s not working.

Smart Ass

Heh. Like your name, too.

There are a variety of problems with the tattoo idea, as others have pointed out. And what about people who carry HPV, which can cause cervical cancer? It’s sexually transmitted as well. What about people who have a history of violence or drunk driving? I could be tattooed with: “Do not trust her with the keys to your car. She will lose them.” Even if there were a cure for AIDS, unprotected sex with partners who are less than well-known will always pose a risk of STD.

Just like with the idea of a carrying card that proclaims one free of HIV and STD (there are companies that market these), it only creates a false sense of security. In America at least, we are generally expected to take responsibility for our own behavior and to make up our own minds about what risks we are willing to take.

There are a variety of interventions that may work to prevent the spread of HIV. For more information, go to http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu

Simply no. AIDS is not the next bubonic plague. The costs of the measures you propose would not outweigh the benifits.

Mr.Zambezi:

ROTFLMAO

MGibson:

Last I heard, it is still commonly believed in much of Africa that the cure for AIDS is to have sex with a virgin.

JillGat:

Thanks. All my friends picked it out.

-VM

Well…both of my friends.

-VM

WIGGUM wrote:

Hitler started by marking and identifying Jews, which turned them into second-class citizens. The rest was inevitable.

And trample all over every right of freedom and privacy we have? No, no, no, no, no - you’re opening up quite a Pandora’s box, heading down a slippery slope, etc., etc., etc.

And it doesn’t take away anyone’s rights to boot! This remains our most effective tool until a cure is found.

How about second-hand smoke? Or children of alcoholics? Or crack babies? Lots of things we choose to do to ourselves hurt others as well, but arguing whether we should deny people these choices is another topic entirely.

But as cited above, it is working, just not as effectively as people making responsible choices. We just have to keep at it.

Your idea is just too totalitarian to work.

Esprix

As to the extent of knowledge people in underdeveloped countries have regarding the facts about AIDS, the belief that having sex with a virgin will cure one of AIDS (and other sexually transmitted diseases) is also held in India and Nepal. In both these countries, trafficking in women is big business and the demand for virgins is huge (both becasue of the disease-curing myth and becasue of some men’s sexual preferences). It is quite common in both India and Nepal for young girls to be sold into prostitution, and these poor women (little girls, really) have absolutely no hope of escaping the situation. Nearly 70% of the prostitutes in these countries are infected with AIDS, and I seriously doubt that the brothel owners are upfront with their customers about that. Many brothel patrons are also not fond of condoms, so the number of babies being born with AIDS is increasing, as is the spread of the disease to those visiting prostitutes (and taking the disease home to their wives).
Yah, I’d say “irresponsible behavior” pretty much sums it up.

If AIDS behaves like other diseases, we should start to see AIDS-resistant people in places like sub-saharan Africa. A disease organism cannot survive if it kills off all of its hosts, so natural immunity will bring a halt to the spread of this disease. Mankind has survived measles, smallpox, tuberculosis, etc., etc. No reason to think AIDS will be any different.