Then you probably should have pointed that out upthread when the whole “niche market” argument was brought to the table, not in response to me who was simply rebutting it.
Once again, I made zero moral judgements for or against Wal-mart in this thread. I was simply pointing out that the “solutions” being offered to the Mom & Pop shops were fallacious in many instances.
The point is that a free market is good even if you can’t point to the services it’s providing today. The lack of a free market is most noticed by the absence of things.
It’s ironic that if you took WalMart and had the exact same stores with the same employees selling the same products for the same prices and the only difference was that the United States government owned the chain instead of the WalMart Corporation, you’d have conservatives rightfully denouncing the whole business as a horrible example of how socialism causes economic catastrophe. But put a figleaf of capitalism over it and not a peep. Adam Smith (who had a thing or two to say about the dangers of monopolies) is spinning in his grave.
So what? You still bought the Walmart pies happily, the market is rational in that it satisfied human needs in the most efficient way, if it took you a year to figure out that you don’t like Walmart pies, then I guess the mom/pop can either step up their marketing campaign or just close down for a year. Who is to blame for that? Certainly not Walmart.
That’s ridiculous. Are their gangs of Walmart thugs roaming the streets beating up mom/pop proprietors? Things are absent from a free market because there’s NO DEMAND. If enough people wanted a handjob from their baker every time they bought a meat pie, they’ll pay for it and the baker won’t go bankrupt. No one is being forced to shop at Walmart, the bottom line is that while lots of you guys talk, not nearly enough of you are actually willing to put money on the table to make it worthwhile for me to start a mom/pop, so I won’t start one and you can keep going to Walmart like you would have anyway.
The point is: Walmart seems attractive at first, then later (some) people realize it has reduced their quality-of-life. But it’s usually too late because the Mom & Pops are gone. The bakery I mentioned is the exception, not the norm.
I don’t necessarily “blame” Walmart, but I bemoan the whole situation because, again, the aggregate effect is negative to me.
I have no experience with small town walmart, I live in Seattle (Renton for those who have any idea) and there is a walmart here. I went there once when I was looking for a boombox that would play mp3 cd’s and they had the only ones in town that I could find anywhere.
the brand was something I never heard of before, the first one lasted a week, the second 3 days, the 3rd stuck around for quite a while but now works like ass. trust me on this, just because something becomes “affordable” doesnt mean its not garbage. there are things that are well worth spending the money on or doing without. when the products cheapness makes it crap there is no justification for even carrying it.
Completely off-topic, but Critical1, isn’t there a Fry’s right down the road from you? (I think it might technically even be in Renton, unless it’s disappeared in the last few months.)
Slightly on topic, Fry’s Electronics might be held up a as a better example of a ‘big box’ retailer, although they aren’t into rapid growth. They started out in the Bay Area, expanded to a few stores, then bought out Incredible Universe which did make them grow quite a bit. Since then, they haven’t grown that much (they did end up with outpost.com).
Slightly more on topic, but a page too late, I noticed that it was first argued that service businesses (nail salons) would be aided by proximity to Walmart, but later that such businesses survive solely on the quality of their service. I suppose there’s no need to address the point if someone’s arguing against themself.
The nail salon will be greatly aided by being inside of or next to Wal-Mart, but that advantage comes simply from increased traffic. Wal-Mart can’t, by any means obvious to me, create substantially cheaper nail services and win in the market by undercutting price.
I haven’t seen any Walmarts that have other (independent) small businesses on the same property. WMs are typically stand-alone structures way out on the edge of town.
It may be different in different places, but in the Western US, particularly in small towns, I’ve yet to see a Walmart physically designed to assist other small businesses. On the other hand, there’s a McDonalds and a Subway inside our WalMart. The nearest ‘Mom & Pop’ of any kind is at least a mile away.
I’ve never run across a store like this in any of the small towns I’ve lived in–and I’ve lived in a few.
The stores I’m familiar with are generally staffed by friends and family of the owner. No one knows anything about anything because they weren’t hired for their expertise, and most definitely not for their friendliness. You can only get the most popular items because the stores are tiny and can’t afford to stock weird stuff. If it is more exotic than a packet of Old El Paso taco seasoning, forget it.
You’re going to the wrong “Mom & Pop” stores, jsgoddess.
I like the ones where the owner started the business because it’s something he/she loves and wants to do. The ones where the owner is actually working there. The ones where the few employees are there more for the employee discount on products they use and enjoy than for the paycheck.
When I walk into Best Buy, Costco, Barnes & Noble, or stores of that ilk, I generally don’t even bother asking questions about the merchandise. I almost always know more about their products than they do. People work there because it’s a job, not because it’s their driving passion. The last Barnes & Noble clerk I asked for help probably hadn’t ever read anything longer or more complex than a People magazine article.
All of my favorite stores are smaller locally-owned stores where the owner has a passion for whatever the store sells, whether it’s brewing, hardware, books, or electronics. The guy who owns the fishing shop in town knows where to go, what to use, and what’s biting. The guy at Big Box, Inc. holds the rod upside-down.
Bah - I’ll take the Mom & Pop shops any day.
I’m going to the ones that are available where I live. To go to other ones, I need to drive 10 or 15 or 20 miles.
Most of what you say I’ll not disagree with, but this … The B&N where I work is mostly staffed by people who like books, and work there for that reason.
I wouldn’t shop at Wal-Mart if my life depended on it. And it doesn’t. I don’t happen to like the company or it’s business practices and put my money where my mouth is. I will shop at Costco and drive past 2 Wal-Marts, and a Sams Club to do so because I admire the way the company is run and how their employees are treated.
Feel the same way about Barnes & Noble. It seems to be a great company.
“Barnes & Noble earned a score of 71 in HRC’s 2005 corporate equality index. They received this rating for: - “sexual orientation” in EEO policy - domestic partner benefits - diversity training - marketing, sponsorship or philanthropy”
Walmart is already getting lazy.
Coming home from 11-7 shift, I noticed that my wipers were streaking badly, so hoping not to have to sit around until 8 waiting for a real automotive store to open, I’d go to WallyWorld.
They didn’t have my wipers despite having all night to restock them. These weren’t exotic-sized wipers, just the standard 18" ones and they didn’t have them! The now-defunct local K-mart,which we dubbed The Siberian K-Mart because just about anything you wanted, they were out of it, at least always had wiper blades when I needed them.
I’ve noticed they’ve slipped a lot since putting K-Mart out of business and putting ShopKo on the ropes.
30 or so years ago, K-Mart was the juggernaut. After they dethroned long-time sales leader Sears, the financial mags had called them unstoppable.
Complacency will stop Walmart’s march toward total domination, too.
The more compelling arguments I’m aware of aren’t that Wal-Mart wins in a given market by virtue of a better business model, fair and square. It’s that they employ predatory pricing, selling well below their actual costs to eliminate competition, raising their prices (one can’t sell below cost forever) once the playing field tilts in their favor. There were cases where local retailers would switch to stocking their shelves by making the purchase from Wal-Mart, because the WM price undercut any available wholesaler’s.
I’m not saying I’m convinced, either. I tend to be a free-market guy, but I do agree that certain ruthless abuses ought to be regulated. Here a wiki cite, FWIW. Sorry if someone already made a similar point.
In a fair fight, I have no problem–let the better man win, so to speak. Just make it a fair fight, meaning no abuses of the free market specifically prohibited. IMO, Wal-Mart has at least skirted the line on many occasions, and on others likely crossed it. That’s not good. As a free-market guy, more competition is generally better for me.
I only ever see a Wal-Mart when I travel. Around here, in my immediate town, we have a K-Mart, a Dollar Store, a Stop-n-Shop, an A&P, a CVS, an old-fashioned lumber yard, an old-fashioned shoe store, three plant nurseries, a hardware store, an Ebay variety store and dropoff place, multiple banks, lots of haircutters and nail salons, and a landscape-supply place where you can get your rocks off, as it were.
Up the road apiece there’s a massive mall with a Macy’s, a Target, a Home Depot, a Barnes & Noble, a Circuit City, a CompUSA, a Staples, a Best Buy, a Modell’s, and a Sports Authority, among others. On the way there you pass a Lowe’s, a Shop-Rite, and multiple smaller shopping centers and strip malls with lots and lots of stores.
If you live in a reasonably middle-class area in a reasonably urbanized setting, you’re going to have a lot more choice than you would in the places where Wal-Mart is the only game in town.
I put my zip code into their website to find the closest one to me, since I had no idea where they are. As the crow flies, 8 miles. But to drive there will cost me a 17 mile trip, a lot farther away than that nearby mall, and in the wrong direction, too, since for our shopping we usually head north, and this store is to our south.
I can’t even begin to conceive of a world where Wal-mart would dominate my area’s economy so much that it would even come close to being described as a monopoly. The competition for the shopping dollar around here is intense, and would never allow for it.
Also, I don’t believe there’s a single Wal-Mart in NYC, only the largest city in the country, after all.
My grandmother lives in a very small town in a very rural area. Besides the stop & rob at the corner, the closest store/gas station/grocery is 10 miles away. The grocery is a sad depressing thing. If you go down the road about another 15 miles, you will be in a little town called Chiefland. It was a classic little crap town. Many boarded up shops, a Piggly Wiggly, a funeral home, a sears catalog store, a florist and 7 hamburger joints all owned by the same guy and named the same thing “Ralphs.” When the Huddle House opened up, there was literally a crowd and a very long wait.
My grandmother hadn’t really had a decent source for clothes or shoes or books or appliances or many things without driving 60 miles to the nearest real town.
The WM she shops at is indeed killing the Winn-Dixie, but from the looks of it, the Winn Dixie isn’t even trying. The plaza the Walmart is in is virtually a guaranteed money maker. There is now a Sonic, a McDonalds, a Walgreens, crap, all sorts of stores.
The fact is, Chiefland away from Walmart looks like a crappy little town, but the Chiefland around the Walmart is BUSY and thriving.
And my grandma, every now and then, can buy a cute pair of shoes on a whim.
I live in a large city. I need a new trash can for my kitchen. The local grocery doesn’t have any. I don’t know of any Mom & Pop specialty shops for trash cans. My choices are: Home Depot, Walmart, Bed, Bath & Beyond, Target, Big Lots and maybe, just maybe the Ace Hardware.
The fact is, driving around looking for a store that might possibly carry something sucks. I know damned good and well if I go to Walmart, not only can I get a trash can, they actually stock the tire that NO OTHER tire place near me stocks(all Mom & Pops) and can install it in 30 minutes…
As much as I basically abhor chains, Gotta give 'em credit.
Penn & Teller’s Bullshit was just about Walmart.
(laughing) I default to my Ace Hardware for just about everything. I was in there once and remarked that, if they stocked toilet paper, I’d never shop anywhere else. The owner replied, “Aisle 9.”
Okay, they don’t have much clothing and their food tends to the candy and jerky food groups, but they have everything else I need, in stock, and at reasonable prices. Maybe not as low as Walmart, but they are closer, too. And they have a cat.
Wallmart forced its suppliers to move to China. Got a problem with that.
Really? Did the Waltons send over their good squad to its suppliers, like Rubber Maid, Proctor & Gamble, Hasbro, Coca-Cola, etc. – all huge corporations in their own right – and force them to send their production facilities to China? Please explain, if not for the sheer entertainment value. Why not just rob them outright? Why even bother going through this hassle of pretense of doing business? Why hire another admin, analyst, or logistics/supply chain professional (all whom, mind you, just in case you’re not paying attention, make more than a garbage can maker)? I hear trigger men are pretty cheap comparatively, and the rest of the savings can be used to buy bullets.
Just in case you’re not getting it, by moving low value, commoditized production overseas, the workforce here can concentrate on providing more value and higher paying jobs. Keeping garbage can makers here will only increase the price of a garbage can. How much value-add can there be? It reminds me of the old joke:
Q: What is the difference between a $15 garbage can and a $10 one?
A: About $5.