Elizabeth Warren 2020. How do you feel about it?

All reputable sources say that the analyst used South American indigenous people as a reference, because not many North American ones participate in DNA tests for these purposes.

From what we think we know of population genetics, this is a decent proxy for whether you have indigenous DNA. Most Americans don’t, contrary to what people think.

Personally I believe this proves Warren’s story that she’s 1/64th or 1/1024th Native blood, but it’s a really Pyrrhic victory as this means nothing without without a real connection to a tribe. Your blood is 1/64th Cherokee, okay, but what does that say about YOU?

She’s technically correct in the claim, but she shouldn’t be making the claim.

A little surprised they can’t scrounge up NA Indian DNA but ok.

I agree that it was silly of her to engage the attack like this. And even if she felt the need to get the DNA done, she should have just dropped the report with little comment rather than adding the “now pay up.your bet” stuff. For her sake, I hope she lets it die out but knowing her nerd girl persona, she’ll probably go on some Indian apology tour. Warren v Trump would be like Bart v Lisa for school president. We know who’s smarter but we know who would win.

I wasn’t just talking about Native Americans but also the activists who support them (especially on Standing Rock). You are right these groups don’t form a big part of the whole electorate but they are important during the nomination stage. The Democrats must keep their base intact in 2020 if they want to beat Trump. If Warren becomes unpalatable to a small-but-vocal segment of the base, the party may reject her for fear her nomination will lead to people who would normally vote Democratic staying home or voting Green on Election Day like in 2000 and 2016.

She said much more than that. Try to keep up.

The nature of Trump’s apish bullying may have left Warren with little choice. Stupid as Trump’s blather was, Warren had no good answer to “Where’s the DNA?” Now she can repeat “Where’s the Million dollars, you wretched liar?” She had to get this out of the way. One error she made: she knew that the amount of Indian blood was, at most, a mere 1/32 and should have lowered expectations to start with.

I admire Elizabeth Warren, but would prefer to see her stumping for another candidate rather than running herself. Still I think “giving in” to Trump’s obnoxious bullying by releasing the DNA result was her best move; I am glad she got it out of the way.

The Bush family, BTW, also have an alleged (and allegedly debunked) descent from a Native American. (Bush-41’s grandfather George Herbert Walker was 6-gt grandson of Austin/Augustine Bearse, an early immigrant to the Plymouth Colony who, being Romani, wasn’t welcomed by the nubile Puritan girls and, allegedly, had to marry a Native. I see via Google that Bush-43 bragged about this Native American connection on the WhiteHouse.Gov website! (Anyone have the requisite Google-fu or Wayback_Machine-fu to find that old whitehouse webpage?)

That Indian hookup in Plymouth, even if true, is much diluter than Warren’s; yet Dubya bragged about it! (I wonder if any descendant of Austin Bearse has shown their DNA result?)


In the remainder of this post I comment only on the genealogical question, which has some interest independent of politics.

A key question to ask is: How many Americans with distant ancestors in the American colonies have seen 'Native American' on their DNA results?  We'll start with me.  No.  ***The score is now 0 out of 1.  Others?***

The reason the question is relevant is that a genealogist may wonder: "Does the DNA test suggest that family lore that Neoma Ocie was Native is, after all, correct?  Or is the Native DNA just typical for descendants of early American immigrants, and thus tells us little?"

Note that descendants of at least two *different* sons of Neoma Ocie (Preston Crawford and William Crawford) have the same family lore that she was a Native American.  Although 20th-century folk look with pride on Native ancestry, most 19th-century Americans would find it shameful and, instead of preserving a document proving a Native link, might seek to destroy it.  In fact, IIRC, some claims of Native ancestry were intended to explain non-white characteristics actually due to even less desirable Negro ancestry.

Does any of this constitute Proof?  Obviously not.  But any serious genealogist knows that 100% proofs are hard to come by.  In fact, many links accepted by experts appear *very* flimsy.  (As just one example, check out the marvelous way genealogists conclude that Hawise, grandmother of the 1st Earl Stafford, was a Despenser.)

Except when she was a professor, then she was the first native American one.

Elizabeth Warren is finished as a presidential candidate. Over. Done. Out. Gone.

She use family lore of Native ancestry to claim tribal membership, and if I’m reading the right websites, she apparently has used that in her professional profile in the past. She claims to identify with a marginalized ethnicity based on an unsubstantiated rumor of her family having had genetic links to Native tribes. She knew damn well all along that she was considered white and lived the white life, yet when it suited her, identified with Native Americans - not because of a desire to identify with Native Americans but rather a desire to bolster her progressive credentials.

I like Warren the politician infinitely more than Trump the politician, but the fact is, he won. She could have survived had she just been quiet and ignored it, but she had to prove a point. That she actually took the steps to respond to order the test and then release it shows how badly she got played.

Personally I’m surprised that Trump’s “I’ll only accept the results if I can DNA test you myself” comment isn’t getting more traction given that it’s CREEPY AS FUCK, but I suppose one more completely offensive statement from the CFSG is just background noise now.

CFSG may refer to: [ul][li]The classification of finite simple groups, a mathematical theorem[/li][li]China Fire and Security Group[/li][li]Commando Forward Surgical Group [/li][li]The Canine and Feline Sector Group[/li][li]CASH Financial Services Group[/li][li]時富金融[/li][/ul]

“Cheeto-Faced Shit Gibbon”

Can you link to these websites, because I don’t think she ever claimed tribal membership as part of her professional profile. And there’s quite a bit of difference between saying “Family lore is that one of my ancestors was Cherokee” and “I am [legally] a member of a Cherokee Tribe”.

Another politician caught in the tangled web of whiteness!

I’ve never had my DNA tested, but a relative on the side that has the native ancestry has. The test didn’t show any, which isn’t surprising, because it was far enough back that it could easily have been washed out, but then, the test also didn’t show any German, even though it should, from many generations of genealogy, have been over half. One of three conclusions must arise: Either there’s a conspiracy among dozens of my ancestors to disguise their heritage, or the testing company’s procedures are so loose they can’t distinguish any finer than all of Europe, or they got the sample mixed up with someone else’s.

Or maybe one or the other of that relative’s parents have some 'splaining to do …

There have been quite a few cases where folks had their DNA analyzed by 2 different companies and got significantly different results, so your experience probably isn’t too surprising. You can also download the raw data and send it to companies that, IIRC, do a better job at analyzing than do Ancestry or 23ands Me.

But not to get too personal or anything, are you certain your distant ancestor was Native American? That is, do you have solid genealogical documentation? The farther back in time you go, the less reliable the information can be. And there is always the possibility that your relative who got tested has a broken genetic link to the ancestor due to some hanky-panky or unacknowledged adoption back in the day.

I’ve never had my DNA tested and I’m not likely to unless it gets more accurate. The results misleadingly show more precision than the accuracy of the tests support. And I think the Cherokee nation has a good point with respect to DNA: it does not matter. Being Native American (or African American, or any ethnicity for that matter) is a social indicator, not biological. Also, in terms of morality, who one’s ancestors are and what they did has no relation to who one is and what one does. One gains neither honor nor infamy from one’s ancestors.

And my family’s genealogical research shows I do have a Native American ancestor, making me one-thirty-second. We have no passed-down family lore; it was forgotten, whether intentionally or not. The ancestor was an indigenous man in Ohio who was converted by Moravians and married a woman of European descent. We have no idea of tribal affiliation.

The genealogy is pretty solid, in that we know who the Native American in question was, and who she married, and who their kids were, and who the kids’ kids were, and so on. But it’s not entirely on the maternal line, so of course there’s the possibility of illegitimacy in there. And in any event, it’s quite possible, over the course of five generations, to get no distinctive DNA from an ancestor.

The German ancestry, meanwhile, is extremely solid. To the best of anyone’s genealogical knowledge, my maternal grandmother was 100% German, on all branches of her family tree. To wash that out, you’d have to assume that her mother fooled around, and her mother’s mother, and her mother’s mother’s mother, several generations back, and that they all managed to find non-German paramours in a mostly-German community.

It would be highly unusually to lose all DNA linking you to an ancestor only 5 generations back. But there is always the possibility that your 5th generation back ancestor was not “non-admixed” NA, if you’ll pardon the double negative. It’s been awhile since I looked at those graphs, but IIRC the probability of no DNA from an ancestor is close to zero until you get to about 8 generations back. And then it gets to be pretty significant when you get to be 12 or so generations back.

I believe that people are putting a lot of faith in these DNA testing companies, and we hear stories like that fairly frequently.

there are DNA tests for dog breeds now. I know the guys who developed them. Some owners are not happy when they found out their dog is not 100% pure. :slight_smile:

I’d vote for an inanimate carbon rod before I voted for any Republican. Don’t care much about Warren one way or the other. And I definitely don’t give a rat’s ass about her DNA.

Especially since she didn’t actually meet the win condition of the bet - the statement from Trump was that he’d pay the $1 million to charity if the DNA test showed that she was “Indian”. But the test only shows that she’s 1/64-1/1024 Native, which doesn’t seem to qualify her as Native under any normal definition, just as ‘someone with a tiny bit of Native ancestry’. The claim to win the bet is a big part of why there’s so much fallout. She didn’t claim to be “Indian” before, which let her pass the whole listing controversey off as ‘some person at Harvard took my old family lore too seriously’ and dismiss the claims that she was claiming to be Native to get ahead. In order to say ‘pay up’, though, she is claiming that the test says that she’s “Indian”, which is distinctly pissing off a lot of tribes.

Trump’s not exactly a great thinker, but the bet was well-constructed as a trap. There’s no way any DNA test was going to give a result that is explicitly “she is Indian”, or that comes close to saying that we should regard her as a Native American and not a white woman. And any claim to win the bet involves her claiming to be “Indian”, which she strongly denied in the past.

If that’s really the case, then I really hope the Democrats don’t even think about nominating her for president, because I think anyone seriously wanting to be president should watch/read/hear the news at least once a week, and there hasn’t been a week without Trumpisms since 2016. If you couldn’t see that Trump is, well, Trump back when he was running, you’re an idiot, and if you can’t NOW after 2 years then… just… I have no words. I don’t think she’s THAT incredibly stupid, but the Democrats always amaze me with their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

There are lots of answers that aren’t as bad as playing Trump’s game on Trump’s terms, especially the part where claiming to win the bet required her to claim to be “Indian”, which is what’s prompting the response from various tribes.