Jodi
Steady advice, thanks. 
I’m confused Jodi. Is there some rule that a person’s un-Christian behavior must be pointed out by a Christian before it becomes worthy of considering if they may be right? If a Christian is screaming obscenities and an Athiest says “Dude! Chill out, remember that Christ guy? Whould he be acting the way you’re acting?” is the Christian justified in dismissing the observation out of hand because it came from an Athiest? Is it somehow a requirement for someone to be a Christian to be able to determine if behavior is “Christ-like” or not?
gobear observed that Lib’s behavior in this thread was not very Christ-like and not in keeping with scripture(he even, very kindly, quoted it). I noted this was not an isolated incident. There have been a goodly number of times Libertarian has demonstrated fairly clearly un-Christ-like behavior here in the pit. When called on it he sometimes apologizes and admits fault, and sometimes he doesn’t. In any event he has noted the “forgiving” nature of God as his catch-all for those times when he falls short. It makes me wonder how much effort he puts into refusing the temptations to behave as he did in this pit thread. It also makes me wonder if sometimes he just lets it slip now because he knows he will be forgiven later.
I feel both my, and gobear’s, observations are valid and neither should be discounted, in whole or in part, simply because we may or may not share a belief system with Lib.
Enjoy,
Steven
Oh, please people this is just silly. I was with you Lib until this tired refrain of lets ban the person who won’t listen to my reason. Elvis is a partisan whore, as are Shodan, Brutus and lissener. I am terribly sorry they hurt your feelings so damn badly that you cannot bear to see their words on a screen any further.
The world is full of partisan whores. So is this board. Shall we just mass ban our partisan whore contingent? I think all of the afore-mentioned posters have rather different definitions of the truth than I do. I would also think that you would have long since learned to deal with them.
Fine OP, the whining about more people you think need a good banning is falling on deaf ears.
I have no basis to weigh whether you personally believe this statment, as you are a continuous liar and nothing you say can be believed in any circumstance. The simple fact that you state something is not sufficient evidence that you believe it.
However, you are factually incorrect as regards the law. Rule 415 of the Federal Rules of Evidence specifically make provision for plaintiffs to explore the sexual pasts of defendants in lawsuits such as the one brought by Ms. Jones.
Also, it’s probably worth noting that President Clinton disagrees with your statement. We know this because he, personally, signed the law adding rule 415 to the rules. Had a press conference and signing ceremony and everything. One wonders what the pens from that signing ceremony would go for on ebay.
MTGMAN –
:: Shrug :: It just strikes me as being very easy to judge someone else’s attempt to meet a standard you don’t yourself attempt to meet. It also strikes me that a person who isn’t trying to meet that standard doesn’t have the first idea of what it entails, or how hard it can be to do so. (And I’m not saying you should be trying to meet this standard; I’m just pointing out that you don’t.) I also note that not only do you presumptiously question the sincerity of LIB’s efforts regarding his faith, you also can’t resist insulting his faith as a type of “cafeteria Christianity” that “very conveniently” rests on the premise of an all-forgiving God.
IME, honest Christians don’t generally point out each others’ failures to act in the most Christ-like manner possible, because we’re all trying and all failing, and we all know how difficult and unattainable it is. And even if the behavior is reprimanded, the reproof will not be accompanied by a gratuitous denigrating of the faith – because we all hold the same general faith. So I pay about the same amount of attention to non-Christians who want to tell me how to practice Christianity as I do to non-lawyers who want to tell me how to practice law. Sure, there’s some lay people who know a lot about the law, just as there’s some non-Christians who know a lot about Christianity (GOBEAR is one). But probably not most of them.
I also found your post objectionable because of the rather insulting implication that LIB’s failure in this instance was not because he tried and failed, but rather because he didn’t try. In your last post you again “wonder” how much “effort” he actually puts into it, something you don’t have – cannot have – the first idea about.
So I do in fact discount your “observations” and “wonderings” to a very great degree – not GOBEAR’s, just yours.
::Shrug:: To each their own. Just seems to me that if a person is trying to overcome the demons tempting him to call someone “a shit-coated dick with running sores” that putting up approximately twelve minutes worth of a fight before losing to those demons doesn’t seem like much effort.
Enjoy,
Steven
:rolleyes:
While we’re at it . . .
Jean Paul, please consider converting to Judaism.
Yogi, please don’t shit in the woods.
Well, MtgMan, we don’t know what trials Lib is going through, so it isn’t right to say he isn’t putting up a fight. He might be struggling with problems in a way we do not see. And calling him a “cafeteria Christian” is way uncalled for.
My post was in no way meant to denigrate Lib or to mock his faith. It’s just that when one is so visible an evangelist on the board, one has a responsibility to be the light on the hill, the salt of the earth.
In any event, Lib’s mild answer has chastened me.
Oh, and [bv]ElvisLives** needs to apologize to Lib big time.
Elvis, please.
The man had an affair with an intern, and lied about it. Happens a hundred times a day in Washington D.C. He was hauled into court and asked about his affair, and he felt he had to lie about his affair there, in order to protect himself. Happens all the time, I’m not exactly shocked that he had an affair, and it is standard procedure for people to lie about their affairs, otherwise they aren’t affairs but dating.
But it happened. What our response to Clinton’s actions should be is a matter for argument. I’m not sorry the lying liar and the lies he told got exposed. But that’s me, I’m an asshole who doesn’t like Clinton. And of course, you can always argue tu qoque to discredit the Republicans. But surely you recall that tu qoque doesn’t exactly exonerate Clinton. It might cast some light on why the lying liar’s lies got exposed (because he was hated by some other lying liars). But it doesn’t mean that the lying liar didn’t lie. And it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen in a court of law. The lying liars manuevered Clinton into a position where he’d either have to lie under oath or embarass himself. We all know why they did that. But that doesn’t change the fact that Clinton decided to lie in court rather than embarass himself.
Gobear:
I suspect the drug thing set Lib off. If I was on meds and some jackass said that to me, I might lose my cool. I know you think I’m the very soul of discretion and restraint, but I might lose my cool.
It might be like somebody calling you the “C” word.
“Conservative”?
“Constipated”?
“Cosmonaut”?
“Curmudgeonly”?
“Carbon-based”?
Rhymes with “cork-mocker.”
That was a fine response, and he deserves credit for it. Very much in keeping with a Christ-like attitude. Well done sir.
As for myself and my view of Lib, it may be too little too late. Had he behaved that way in more of his previous meltdown threads I’d still be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. As it stands now I’ve seen him fall off the turnip truck so often and so frequently, for so many causes, that to continue to assume good faith on his part just makes me feel dumb. The saying is “fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Libertarian has started tons of pit threads. In a great many of them he clearly violates the principles laid out in the verse you quoted above. When reproached he has taken the stance that God will still forgive him so his jerkitude is absolved and no apologies or patching up with his fellow human beings will be offered/attempted.
Still, more responses like the one made to gobear may reverse this trend and then I’d be glad to admit that while he may not always practice what he preaches, at least he’ll fess up to it when he strays. Then it will be much easier to respect him. Very hard to respect a guy who seems able to throw his own rules out the window when it is convenient and feel no remorse about it later though.
Enjoy,
Steven
Scylla, I hope you know the “meds” comment came straight from Lynn. I don’t know if Libertarian is, in fact, on meds. I suspect he is not.
dork-locker? one who locks dorks instead of doors?
Ya lost me…
Elvis: he lied.
There is no such thing as a President who is worthy of respect on the level of personal character; they are uniformly ruthless, power-hungry, and far less than honest. As far as Clinton is concerned, Murray Kempton, a liberal columnist from around these parts, had it right when he said of Clinton, “He has plenty of excuses; there’s no excuse for anyone who likes him.” I say that as someone who supported most of his policies, but that hardly means I’d want him for a friend.
As for Lib, the reaction was understandable, but a bit over the top. 'Nuff said.
Given the history of the various uses of phallically-shaped instruments in Pres. Clinton’s office, I guess the going price would depend on what they smelled like.
You’d like to buy the dignity of the Oval Office? That’ll be one Cuban mackerel, please. 
Steven
With all due respect, I believe you have me confused with someone else. I cannot ever recall using the forgiving nature of God to excuse my behavior.
What I generally say (because I believe it to be true), is that what makes each of our lives significant is that each of our lives is a moral journey — a private, personal, and subjective moral journey. Mine isn’t the same as yours, and neither of ours is the same as Gobear’s. We each, individually, discreetly, and inescapably, are unique free moral agents, and none of us has ever experienced the exact same thing the exact same way at the exact same time.
My destination is love. In my journey, I often fall into the ditch. God does indeed forgive me (and you, and Gobear), but the experience of having fallen in the ditch remains.
My over-the-top reaction to Elvis, while inexcusible, is because of the value I place on reason. As Jesus teaches, where your treasure is, there your heart is also. Because I treasure reason, the passion of my heart takes over whenever I encounter unreasonable people.
My lesson to be learned is to value love more than reason. That does not mean that I value reason too much, but that I value love too little.
To me, goodness is the most valuable aesthetic, as it is the aesthetic most valued by God. Love is the facilitation of goodness. Therefore, God is love.
What is encumbent on me is to make what I know from reason, as stated above, into a living part of my life. To be like God, I must value goodness above all else and be its facilitator.
When I’ve done that, my experience in this mis-en-scene of atoms will be finished.
Meanwhile, people like you, Gobear, Jodi, and others think enough of me to express concern when I fall into the ditch. When you pull me up by my muddy hand, I can be nothing but grateful.
And now life goes on.
Ho hum. Still looking for even one example that holds up to scrutiny. You, however, based on that statement, are a slanderer, not just an ordinary deliberately-ignorant asswipe.
When did I say I was discussing only the law? You quoted me as saying those questions should not have been asked in the first place, and that’s true. That’s narrowly because the suit was about job discrimination, and no facts to support that such had happened were ever offered. More broadly, it’s because the suit should never have been brought in the first place. You do know who filed it, and the circumstances, and as part of what effort, don’t you? If you were that ignorant about it, at the time, it is unlikely to have changed, and I don’t frankly have the time or the patience to explain it.
It is highly convenient to those who, like yourself, cannot face up to your complicity in an attempt to undermine democracy itself to simply try to forget that ever happened. Grow the fuck up, manny. You have a far greater responsibility as a citizen than you have ever shown.