Libertarian, you have my sympathy. Been down the same road.
But, see, I don’t see this particular thread as being about “grinding anyone into the dust.” I also don’t really see it as being about who is the biggest political dick, who has the biggest political dick, or where politicians put their respective political or personal dicks.
It has to do with a person demanding a cite for something, being given a damn near unimpeachable (ha!) cite – a federal court decision, complete with transcript citations – and rejecting that as not meeting “our” standard of proof. It has to do with someone saying “point out where this guy lied,” having it pointed out, and then refusing to admit he sees what is right before his very eyes.
So if you want to deplore partisan blindness, you might take it up with ELVIS. He’s the one who, in the linked thread, presumes Bush snorted coke just because Bush failed to explicitly deny it, and yet OTOH refuses to believe Clinton lied under oath, even after being provided with cites unequivocally showing he did. IMO, the issue isn’t what Bush did, or what Clinton did, but why anyone, on either side of the aisle, would be so wedded to their team that they would refuse to acknowledge that their guy did anything wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
And if you read the linked thread carefully, you’ll see that it wasn’t a Republican who brought up the whole tiresome “Clinton lied” thing for the 900th time. Seriously, if the dems don’t want to talk about how the guy lied – and it would be totally fine with me if it were dropped forever and ever – they shouldn’t (a) bring it up in the first place (again) or (b) insist he really didn’t when, I’m sorry, he just did.
Wow, Izzy. I had already forgotten about that. Damn.
And got run over by the same fleet of trucks, too. Pity you didn’t learn anything from the experience.
Libby, it’s already been suggested to you, elsewhere, by someone who knows, that you go adjust your meds. Please do so.
I see lucwarm has weighed in too, with his own memories of having his face rubbed in facts. Some people learn and grow. Some whine about it on anonymous message boards. Grow the fuck up, junior.
Now, as you all may know, the main charge against Clinton was perjury, not weaseling. He evaded questions he should never have been asked in the first place. Anyone hoping that the context and the story of the Get Clinton Movement will somehow be forgotten by history, while the Magic Blowjob remains as a Pearl of Truth is sadly self-deluded.
But the charge of perjury is not supported. Evasion, certainly. Misleading, perhaps. But lying according to the definition given, so as to constitute perjury? The facts say otherwise.
Hell, yes, our democracy and its workings are important. Any of you now saying “Get over it”, did you want it gotten over 4 years ago? No bullshit now, no, you did not. Don’t even bother to tell us why; we all know.
Thanks for the laughs, folks. Now go tell your Mommy you need a new diaper.
Now stop that.
Elvis, by your standards, there is no proof that the Red Sox have failed to win a World Series since 1918.
Your words are worthless. You are a shit-coated dick with running sores.
Your words are worthless. You are a shit-coated dick with running sores.
Your words are worthless. You are a shit-coated dick with running sores.
Your words are worthless. You are a shit-coated dick with running sores.
Your words are worthless. You are a shit-coated dick with running sores.
Your words are worthless. You are a shit-coated dick with running sores.
Your words are worthless. You are a shit-coated dick with running sores.
Yeah, it was rough. Getting called “Izzy dear”, IIRC. Really tough stuff - not for the faint of heart. I think you also said I was having a “meltdown”. Remarkably similar to your approach to this thread, in fact. So I guess you could aptly call it the “same fleet of trucks”, though with the emphasis more on the word “same” than on “fleet of trucks”.
Also in keeping with your previous approach, I see that you end off your post by pretending that you are enjoying the thread. Keep the stiff upper lip there - maybe, just maybe, someone will believe you.
ElvisL1ves, you are proving yourself to be a dishonest, hypocritical, partisan weasel. I have seen you lambast our current President all over these boards for his misleading statements and half-truths couched in just enough weasel words and unusual connotations to allow plausible deniability. Bill Clinton, during his testimony, did the exact same thing. Both are liars. Going to the mat for one and defending them through fuzzy thinking and legalistic semantical loopholes while simultaneously deriding others for using the exact same techniques to defend another lying jackass is the very definition of hypocrisy.
Show some backbone and divorce yourself from the partisan whining. There is no way you can be taken seriously when you turn a bright light of inspection and critical thinking on Bush’s statements while simultaneously unquestioningly buying any bullshit that Clinton cared to serve up on his silver tongue.
Enjoy,
Steven
Hmm.
OK, ElvisLives is most definitely wrong, and Lib is right. No question.
But. . .
Lib, for someone who espouses to be a follower of Christ, you’re not a good role model for those of us who are outside the fold You talk about Love is the manifestation of God’s presence, and how we should give our lives to Jesus, and how you know God is real because you have felt His spirit.
But what good is all that rhetoric if it does’t carry over into your actions?
Jesus said,
And here you are, at a slight provocation swearing like a sailor and breathing fire and threatenings like pre-road-to-Damascus Saul persecuting the apostles. C’mon, does “Your words are worthless. You are a shit-coated dick with running sores” serve the ministry of Jesus? Does your disciplehood crumble that easily?
I’m not trying to bust your chops or give you hard time. It’s just that I keep hearing about Christians being a new creation through the transformative power of the Holy Spirit, yet when the going gets tough, you guys fall into the mud just as quickly as we unsaved folk do.
gobear, I recall a very similar question which was put to Libertarian some time ago. His answer was basically “I’m not perfect. I’ll lose my temper every so often. That doesn’t mean I’m not a Christian or that I’m not trying. God understands. God forgives.”
Reminds me of a friend I had in college. He believed the path to heaven lies in faith, not works or a combination of faith + works. So basically he was living it up and being as hedonistic as he liked with the underlying plan to make a deathbed confession and end up in heaven. carte blanche is a very useful thing. After all, all it takes to be a Christian is acceptance of the Christ as your savior right? Sure it would be great to be a kind, loving person, but it isn’t a requirement, so why bother squashing the occasional urge to call someone “a shit-coated dick with running sores”?
It is just another variation on cafeteria-style Christianity. Not only can a person pick and choose which Biblical entreaties they will follow, but they can even break those when they feel so inclined. Nice to have a god who will forgive anything any number of times. Very convenient.
Enjoy,
Steven
what, you can’t argue with the man, so you attack his religion ?
goddamn cowards.
I am large, I contain multitudes. Especially on Tuesdays.
That’s a shorthand way of saying I can think Lib is right about Elvis being a hypocritical head-up-ass partisan, and still consider Lib a whining hypocritical bitch who doesn’t practice what he preaches.
Oh, and it also means I may be a whining hypocritical bitch who doesn’t practice what he preaches.
Enjoy,
Steven
What, you can’t rebut their point so you attack them?
Pudding head.
Gobear
You’re right that I’m a lousy role model. I am the very least in the Kingdom of Heaven. And I break God’s heart with my sin.
When my moral journey is complete, I will have learned how to love. And this biological prison will no longer be necessary. As you can see, it is a hard lesson for me.
I’m glad you think enough of me to bring the matter to my attention. Thanks.
ELVIS, please don’t be obtuse. You asked for citation to where he was lying, not for a rehash of the argument about whether or not he technically committed perjury. You asked LIB to “read the transcript and point out where he lied.” LIB linked you to a federal court order citing to the very transcripts – page cites! – where he lied.
You now say “But lying according to the definition given, so as to constitute perjury?” According to what definition, given where? 
Is there some confusion in your mind about what “lying” means? Are you, in your zeal to defend your ex-leader, embracing his tactics of professing not to know the common definitions of common words? What definition were you using when you asked “point out where he’s lying”? And if you in fact contend “lying” and “committing perjury” are different, and that perjury is something more than, or other than, lying under oath, please keep in mind that it was YOU who asked for the citation to where he was lying, not to where he was committing perjury. You got exactly what you asked for: proof he lied under oath. Now suck it up.
LIB, I won’t attempt to judge whether or not you’re being a “good Christian,” though I will point out to you that it is usually non-Christians who presume to do so, so take it for what it’s worth. But just because ELVIS accuses you of having a meltdown doesn’t mean you have to prove him right.
I am large, I contain multitudes. Especially on Tuesdays.
That’s a shorthand way of saying I can think Lib is right about Elvis being a hypocritical head-up-ass partisan, and still consider Lib a whining hypocritical bitch who doesn’t practice what he preaches.
Oh, and it also means I may be a whining hypocritical bitch who doesn’t practice what he preaches.
See, that’s THREE different opinions. All held by the SAME person! It is AMAZING! It’s like waking up one day and discovering the world isn’t just black-and-white. That there are variations and they all exist AT THE SAME TIME!
Enjoy,
Steven
Pudding!?
There’s always room for Jello brand pudding!
I think this is far beyond the pale of what is acceptable.
I hope the administrators examine that in the context of your posting history and behavior and ban you for it.
Humm,
Well:
- I’m not an American
- I like Clinton infinitely more than Bush
- I’m much more liberal in my leanings than ANY republican
- I think oral sex is a good, good thing, even (or perhaps especially) when the leader of the free world is on the receiving end.
However, it is still plain that Bill Clinton lied. I would say it’s quite plain that he perjured himself. It appears that persons much more knowledgeable about such things agree.
Elvis, you don’t appear to have a leg to stand on here. Of all the arguments to have, this one seems kinda, well, dumb, really. And belittling another poster because of a health issue is ignorant in the extreme. Really.
Scylla, far be it for me to intervene, but in all fairness ElvisL1ves is simply being an ignorant prick, not a bannable prick.