GaWd, well said.
And I agree almost entirely Lux. Almost.
I disagree with you on one thing, I don’t think he’s influencing people negatively. So far, every Eminem fan I’ve seen knows that what Eminem says is totally fucked up, and doesn’t condone any of it. They realize that what he says is totally wrong, and I think that’s why they like it. It doesn’t make much sense to me. But I don’t think he’s harming the society’s youth or anything. In fact, I don’t know of anyone who takes him seriously.
I have no idea who Eminem is, or at least I didn’t, before I opened this thread. Boy, I seem to be missing out on a lot! 
To further discuss something brought up previously:
Exactly. The difference between an actor playing some unpleasant person in a movie or on TV is that the role is taken in context of the whole film. Also, probably all of the films that Spacey or Walken have been in are not written by them. The characters are not created by them. The storyline of the films are not usually meant to glorify or legitimatize the behavior of the characters Spacey or Walken portray. From what I gather, this Eminem fellow gets to choose what he writes, what he sings, and what “message” he portrays on his CDs. He is the artist, and the ultimate authority of what goes on his CDs. The same cannot be said for Walken and Spacey and the films they star in.
Come hang out at my middle school for a few.
Nacho sez:
Um, you’ll have to forgive me, but aren’t you 18 or 19 years old? What do you consider rap’s “infancy”?
And why is samantha fox in your list?
Ok, I know who Eminem is. I’ve heard the songs but >yawn< I am underwhelmed. Come on. I don’t think his music is any more a true representation of “how life is today” than the Barney album is of real dinosaurs. Mr. Mathers doesn’t care if we love him or hate just as long as we have a strong opinion about him and talk about him. The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s apathy. I’m so over him. Let’s move on shall we?
OK, I love Eminem. I think some people just take him too seriously. Half of what he says he either doesn’t mean or he wants to make you wonder whether he does or not. I’;m not going to argue about his sound, but people need a sense of humor to listen to him.
Hahaha, I’m just playin ladies (kill you)
he straight out says he’s joking here. the whole song was a joke and he admits it.
Became a commodity because I’m W H I
T E, cuz MTV was so friendly to me (Im back)
he knows that half of his success is based on the color of his skin, and he doesn’t care. because he has talent anyway, even if he’s purple.
A lot of people ask me… stupid fuckin questions
A lot of people think that… what I say on records
or what I talk about on a record, that I actually do in real life
or that I believe in it
Or if I say that, I wanna kill somebody, that…
I’m actually gonna do it
or that I believe in it
Well, shit… if you believe that
then I’ll kill you
(Kill You)
again he’s saying how its a joke and how you should take everything he says with a grain of salt.
My favorite thing about Eminem is the way he just doiesnt care. he says wshat he wants to say regardless of who he is offending. its equal oppurtunity. hes said some things on his albun that would pffend a lot of people i know, IF they didnt have a sense of humor.
Thats just my .02 i can see how Eminem is sort of a love him or hate him kind of thing. But he does have some merit as an artist.
::steps down off the soapbox::
I was wondering the same thing, mouthbreather. I find it hard to believe that Nacho4Sara was hanging out in her crib listening to Kool Mo Dee and such. Besides, George Clinton broke up Parliament in 1981. How old were you then, Sara?
People are hypocritical by nature. We all do things that go against what we say. People also by nature like to blame others for what is wrong with society. They made marilyn Manson a scapegoat, along with Black Sabbath, Kiss, Eminem, and others that were persecuted because they did something that shocked others, even if it was just speaking their minds. I listen to a few of the artists mentioned above, and all they’re doing is talking about what they see, and if they like what they see, which is often a no. As seriousart said, just because someone writes and sings about doing things that aren’t moral to most people doesn’t mean the listeners will go out and do what the records say. If that were true, we’d all be fools.
I was negetive, necros. Not yet born.
What I meant was, my parents listened to this. My friends listened to this. The first cassette I ever owened was Run DMC, and I loved it. The first record I ever remember hearing was George and the P-funk. And after school every day from ages 4-12 I went to the Rec, an afterschool center, and learned how to break dance, traded NWA and LLCoolJ tapes with other kids, and generally adored rap. I still do.
Samantha Fox was one of the first female artists to use rap on a song. In fact, she predates Debbie Harry from Blondie in “Heart of Glass” (I think that’s what it’s called - not a big Blondie fan here). Also in Baltimore, there is a big DJ scene and everyone had bootleg DJ tapes, including me.
Hm. Are you sure about the Fox/Harry thing, Nacho? Debbie Harry recorded “Rapture” (that’s the song you’re looking for) in 1981, I believe. Fox’s first single was released in 1986.
Not positive, Chris. I just read in an article that she predated Blondie, but I dont know the course or anything. It was in the Baltimore Sun, though.
Hey hypergirl - just a comment - please use some punctuation and make an effort to spell properly or preview your reply. I wanted to read your post but the whole thing was one long, misspelled headache.
I also meant to say in my first post that Eminem’s song Stan is excellent - I love it, mainly because of the Dido song “Thank You” he sampled (one of my faves) but also because of the seriousness of the isuue. Maybe he is joking when he says “bitch I’ma kill you, you ain’t nothing but a slut to me” and talks about raping his mother (“and we gave him the rolling stone cover” is pretty funny) but I don’t think he’d funny. However, “Stan” shows that he can address issues with dignity and intelligence.
Still…when someone says, “fuck you too bitch call the cops. I’ma kill you and those loudass motherfucking barking dogs” I tend to walk in the other direction.
I made fun of hypergirl and then misspelled half my post - pie’s on my face, I guess!
I meant to say He’s, not he’d.
Actually, Blondie’s “Rapture” was released January 1980. Samantha Fox was 14 at the time. Her first actual recording was in 1982 with a group in high school. No predating there.
I’m sorry for the mis-spelling and stuff. I was kind of in a hurry when I wrote the thing. I know that’s no excuse. But other than that, I completely agree with you. That was the one thing that I forgot to say in my first post. His song Stan is definitely his best by far. The Dido chorus is almost haunting. After their first time hearing it, two of my guy friends were near tears. And it’s also the least offensive. My friend who hates all of rap and especially Eminem would even admit that. It shows that he knows the harm that he can do, and believe it or not, that’s a pretty heavy weight to carry on the shoulders of one person, no matter who it is.
Just a thought here . . . I think that Insane Clown Posse is a ridiculous act with very little talent. That said, if you haven’t heard their response to Eminem you should check it out. One is called Slim Anus and the other is Nothing but a Bitch. I have to admit these songs are absolutely hysterical and actually quite good. I will not be buying any ICP cds anytime soon - but they are well worth a download.
To be honest I don’t really see what the fuss is about with Eminem. I agree that his subject matter isn’t particularly edifying but then that is true of nearly all rappers. Eminem is by no stretch of the imagination the most violent, mysoginistic rapper out there (although he ** is ** those things, he’s not the worst).
His lyrics can at times be very poignant and affecting (stan) and at other times be screamingly funny (Real Slim Shady, Criminal, Guilty Conscience plus many more). As far as racism goes, there have been more racist stereotypes up for display in this thread than there is on the entire Marshall Mathers LP ( before I’m jumped on I know that “White boys can’t rap” is not really racism but it is still one more negative stereotype than the Marshall Mathers LP has). As far as his activities outside the music industry go (and I don’t think they should even be able to take these into acocunt but they have been already so I may as well proceed) he has a very turbulent relationship with his wife (unfortunate but by no means unheard of), he has not committed any crimes that I am aware of (and I know he’s on trial for assault at the moment but he’s pleading innocent and that makes him innocent until the court says otherwise) which is a lot more than can be said for most rappers (Snoop doggy dogg and ODB for instance)
Lets look for a second at his two most controversial songs. The song most people like to cite as an example of the evil of Eminem is '97 Bonny and Clyde where Eminem talks about killing his girlfriend and taking his daughter to Mexico.
Firstly the song never states any claims to being autobiiographical, it could be about someone else and these things ** do ** happen in the world.
Secondly this song was written and recorded when his then girlfriend Kim was threatening to leave him and take his daughter with her. Eminem must have EXTREMELY pissed off when he did that song. In anger we have all done things which were rash and ill thought out and Eminem has publicly stated that recording that song was a mistake. The trouble is that the people who criticize him most in the media tend
to view him as public property because of his fame so they don’t give him a break.
The second most controversial song, “Kim” is about Eminem actually killing his wife for cheating on him. I personally don’t like this song at all, for me it crosses the line.
Whereas in '97 Bonny and Clyde Eminem cleverly plays with the emotions of the listeners as what at first appears to be a father daughter day trip turns much more sinister, “Kim” is deliberately designed to shock and offend.
I don’t like it. I have friends, however, who do, they like the raw energy and shocking force of the track. Therefore I don’t condemn it. I don’t see any reason to condemn it either. The song does not, to my mind, negatively influence people. Eminem does NOT look good on that song. His actions are reprihensible and there is
no attempt made to excuse them and they make him look very, vry bad indeed. Therefore I don’t think that anyone would be inclined to imitate him, which after all, is what the
majority of the fuss is all about.
Let’s get things in perspective here. He is just a rapper and the two songs I have just mentioned pale in comparison to efforts by other musicians (ODB, Snoop Doggy Dogg and Ice
Cube have all gone further than Eminem in their desire to shock, in my opinion, and bands such as Cradle of Filth, although they’re not rappers, make Eminem look like Val Doonican). Eminem is not going to corrupt America’s youth, he is going to continue to make fast, funny tracks for those who like him and ultra-violent trash for those who don’t.
Either way I don’t think we should pass any judgements on him.
As far as the quality of his beats and his flow go, I like them, that’s just up to personal taste.
I’ve actually heard very little of this character’s music but my annoyance is with the assertion in the original post on this subject that this clown should be admired just because he says what’s allegedly on his mind.
I’ve never been quite sure why I should necessarily admire someone just because they are willing to shout their stupidity in a loud voice from the highest rooftop……especially when they are raking in flippin’ great wodges of cash at the same time. Saying something that is unpopular but needs to be said and taking flack for it is one thing but self serving bizarre behavior and inflammatory speech for the sake of selling records or t-shirts is not worth my attention. ie: Dennis Rodman.
The angry “rebel” and angst filled youth gag is really wearing thin.
Well that’s just plain ridiculous. You are public property if you become famous. Duh. I think the past, I don’t know, century or so of movies and music have proven that if you become famous, you give up your anonymity (sp?) and your life, basically. Then you get paid millions of dollars to do something mediocre because you were lucky enough to capitalize on the few skills you have.
So, yes I will judge him all I want. He can do anything he wants behind closed doors, but when he goes into a nightclub and endangers the lives of hundreds of people with a semiautomatic weapon because his drunk ass heard that someone was kissing his wife, then YES I have a right to know and to judge him.
Furthermore, what you are professing goes beyond the realm of common sense. If I did what Eminem did, I would lose my job, my benefits, I would be thrown out of my house and I’d probably still be in jail because I don’t have money for bail. I would be judged by my actions in the same way he was, only fewer people would be judging.
You are suggesting that Eminem recieve special treatment (no one is innocent until proven guilty anymore) because he is famous, which is bullshit. Your famous: you get money, wealth beyond your wildest dreams, you can fuck any nubile teenybopper you want every night, you live in a mansion and have fabulous cars. You can afford bail when you make an ass out of yourself. BUT god forbid anyone think poorly of you.
And if someone famous puts out a message that murder is ok, that you can say whatever you want without facing the consequences (haha good one), that you can be an uneducated white trash idiot and still become famous and rich, then it’s fucking pathetic that people buy it up like white on rice. It’s disturbing and it says a whole lot about our fucked up society that Eminem is lauded for such bullshit. I mean, if you like him by all means listen, but everyone does not have to throw a parade for his lame ass. Please.
And I am NOT impressed that he has the “balls to say it to your face”. I have those balls too, but if I blurted out every bullshit comment that came to mind, I would be punishged accordingly:
Me: Jesus Christ, I don’t feel like doing any work today, so leave me the fuck alone, you nimrod piece of shit.
My Boss: You’re fired.
See how it works? Just because Eminem doesn’t have to worry about such things does not make him a hero.
One more thing: why on God’s green earth should he deserve a break?
It’s not like he wrote the song, then boom! it existed. No, he wrote it, recorded it, mixed it, demoed it, and that probably took several weeks. It didn’t just appear from the heavens. If he is so sorry about that song, he should have stopped once he wrote it. The only reason he apologized for anything is because if he didn’t, then angry parents would have stopped their 13-year-old daughters from buying his new CD.
Eminem is stupid, ignorant, and despicable. Maybe once he serves the prison sentence he deserves I will cut him some slack. Not likely though.
Umm, Sarah…
Not to nitpick, but it was an unloaded 45mm handgun. He simply committed assault, nothing more. Hundreds of lives were not “at risk”, only one guy, who was pistol-whipped for doing something stupid. **
It sounds to me like you’ve bought into the Eminem media-hype just a bit too much.
**(Just to re-iterate, I don’t condone his actions, I’m simply informing you of the facts)
-Sam