Empire: Total War

As Kinthalis said, make sure Show CPU Moves is set to off. Generally it takes around 2-3 minutes for the computer to take all of it’s turns (if there aren’t any battles to fight). I usually surf the net or do something else after I click on next turn. It doesn’t seem much longer than any of the other Total War games to me.

I don’t think it’s your rig. Assuming you mean that it’s taking a couple of minutes per complete computer turn (and not a couple of minutes per faction turn) then you are running about as well as I am. Again, it seems pretty similar to other TW games I’ve played as far as the computers turn.
I’ve noticed that the AI seems quite a bit smarter than I seem to recall in either MTW II or RTW (even with the RTR and Stainless Steel mods). On the strategic map it seems the computer is much more willing to do deep strikes and small force raids…something I don’t recall from the earlier games. Tactically they seem to be pretty dull as far as infantry goes (they pretty much go straight at you), however, they can be pretty inspired in their use of cavalry and artillery. Ship wise they seem to be better when they have a smaller fleet (on in one on one ship duels)…in large battles using the wall I can generally clean their clock by simply putting my ships of the line in squadrons and essentially running large arcing sweeps that bring my wall into firing position in turn. When I was the Brits I regularly beat fleets larger than I was using these tactics…but when it was smaller fleet actions I would get much more beat up.

-XT

That’s not saying much, considering the RTW AI was dumber than a sack of pila, and the M2TW was only marginally better. And I’ve seen Empire do some egregious Dumb Shit, like leave the capital of Austria completely undefended right next door to my expansionist, distrusted and at war Prussia. Or in the same game, Poland nixing a very profitable trade agreement, then declare war only to send like one or two units of line infantry per turn at Brandenburg. Of course they’re gonna get slaughtered, idjit ! Half my standing army’s there !

On the whole though, I’m quite happy with the immense progress on the diplo front. Alliances stick, countries seem rational, allies really do come and help (and try to nick the provinces they came to “help” you take :wink: )…

I’m quite disappointed with the naval battles myself. They’re very… arcade-y. Sailing upwind ? No problem. Turning on a dime ? Even a galleon can do it, making sloops and brigs utterly useless. Switching from round shot to chain shot ? Doesn’t take a reload. It’s also faster to blow a ship to bits with round shot that to destroy its sails and masts with chainshot :dubious:. Etc…

It’s a good thing they added them mind you, as it’s been something I’ve wished for a long time, but right now it’s way more Sid Meier’s Pirates! than Age of Sail, which is somewhat disappointing in a grand strat game. I guess the following game will iron and polish things out, that’s how CA works.

That’s about the length it takes to complete computer’s turn, so it’s not just me then. I can live with that. I just upgraded everything so I was going to be sad if the computer was still slow after everything I did.

For those of you wondering about those 64lb great cannons, I found them disappointing.

In my Britain campaign I had found that howitzers, when placed behind a protective line of infantry, fire over them. Cannons tend to fire through them, and the great cannons were no exception. They’re fixed; and their 600 range didn’t quite reach far enough. The only shots they can fire are round shot and shrapnel shot; the shrapnel shot has a shorter range and seemed to detonate improperly compared to shrapnel from 24lb cannons.

I really enjoyed using howitzers as the British, so the inability to build them as Maratha is a little disappointing. On the bright side, this prompted me to try out mortars. I had shied away from using them because they’re fixed, but they can rain percussive shells almost anywhere on the battlefield with minimal friendly fire. The only time I saw them kill any of my own units where when I was running some Sipahis from one flank to another and they ran right through where the mortars were stationed. And then they only killed two of them.

You’ve pressed spacebar for fast unit movement, right?

Waitaminute, 2-3 minutes even with Show CPU Moves off? That’s a really long time. In M2TW it never takes more than a minute, rarely even that long IME.

-Kris

To the people saying turns take longer with a navy : are you sure it’s not the naval commerce ? I just noticed that trading with someone reveals the fog of war around the whole trade line & their ports (I thought alliances did that, but apparently so does plain commerce with neutral partners), so there’s a lot more stuff to display.

Turn processing isn’t the problem for me. It’s that selecting a fleet can make the game “stick” for a few seconds, or even crash the game. It’s much less pronounced in my second campaign, which I started after the first patch. Applying the patch didn’t fix my first campaign, though. It seems to be tied to individual ships. I’ve got lots of fleets active, and only one gives me a few seconds of sticking. In my original campaign I had a fleet I couldn’t touch because selecting it would crash the game every time I tried it.

My Maratha republic has taken over the middle east and north Africa, and is pressing into the Balkans. I have so many merchant ships active that I’m harvesting over two thousand tusks of ivory each turn. It’s a wonder elephants aren’t extinct yet.

Ah yes, I’ve noticed that too - and not just with fleets. For example, the starting army in East Prussia (in the Grand Prussian Campaign obviously) does this everytime, I think it’s one of the pike units doing it. No idea what causes this.

Also, for some reason, splitting a fleet while it’s on a trade spot will cause the trade fleet remaining on the spot to bug out. They’re still there, but no trade comes out, the fleet is selectable but can’t move anymore. The only way to “fix” this I’ve found is to scuttle the whole fleet. So, remember : move from the spot, split, move back in.

I just had a glorious lost.

After taking Paris my army was extremely beat up. All units were at least quarter strength, some worse off. And then the Spanish decided it would be a good time to attack while I was waiting for reinforcements.

It was around 1500 to 450. Knowing I would lose my army that I had the entire game (Seriously, all units were at 3 and 4 experience) I had decided to try and take out as many as possible.

I found a corner up on a hill that I sat on and waited for them to attack. They had around 4 units of cavalry and 4 artillery with the rest mixed between line, militia, and irregulars. I was immediately flanked by the cavalry (I hate them) but for some reason my units held and caused them to route. Same with the majority of their units. By the end it was down to 3 of my units comprising a 10-man Grenadier, and 2 other 5-man Line Infantry against 4 things of horse artillery. I was actually doing well, I started to think I could actually win the battle and save my army, when one of the 60-man Spanish Irregulars reformed and attacked. My men could not just take anymore.

My army was destroyed but the Spanish lost over 900 men.

Never had I had so much fun losing a battle.

Even losses can be hysterical, nail-biting action here. Particularly the rather unpredictable naval battles can be edge-of-the-seat experiences.

Last night, I had my Spearhead fleet engage a line of twelve hostile ships flying the Black Jack. My Spearhead, at the time, consisted of my Admiral Holborn’s First Rate Ship of the Line, two escort Second Raters, six third-raters and a tail of two sixth-raters and a sloop.

I prefer the inverted wedge formation, which looks like this:
(Where the enemy ships are the red Es)


**
  3    2    1     2     3

     3              3
 
         3       3
            6
              
            6

            S
**

Where 1 is a First Rate, 2 is a 2nd Rate, etc - and S is my Sloop of Doom.

It’s a very decent formation, all around, particularly against superior forces. Their force was five second rates, four third rates and a mix of about 12 sloops and brigs. Now, the deal with sloops is that they’re formidable in their own right as they can pack a punch, and these ones were freshly repaired and rank three experience, with a six-star admiral backing them up. Back in the start, I’d often use three-or-so sloops sailing in a circle against a second-rater to pound their sailes into submission. Divine which one the enemy is focusing on and keep it moving, while the second two get moved to be out of the line of fire and preferrably be placed ahead of bow or stern or one at each. If the enemy refocuses, just rinse and repeat. The only important thing is to not let the enemy use both sides - the tactic is to get it still in the water as quickly as possible and then pick away their guns, leaving them dead in the water and harmless on one flank.

So, you might say, I know what danger sloops can be to my own.

My “flying fist” (inverted wedge) formation works in that the entire fleet sails forward in formation. When the enemy’s column of ships breaks in one direction, that “leg” of my own formation break in the same - and since they’re already further out to the sides, they’re already in a better position. (Usually the enemy’s column gets centred in the middle, pointing straight at your own fleet.)

The other leg, as well as the “face”, sail straight on and ideally pass by in a staggered formation, giving the banking enemy formation the once-over in the flank or the rear before banking to come around or, if the enemy fleet stops up, anchor to become a battery or to intercept fleeing ships.

So, basically, the formation ideally looks something like this:



                       E
                       E
                       E         3
               1      E          2
              2       E         3
                3       E      6
                 3        E   6
                3            S
                               


As you can see, it’s a good position, for me. If they stop and make a slugging match out of it, I’m able to hit both sides of the hull and wheel to present an undamaged gunnery side, if any of my ships start firing less. Their advantage of being able to shoot at both sides at the same time gets nixed rather rapidly - it takes it’s toll early, but since I’ve got bigger ships with better and more guns, I can outlast them.

If they choose to keep swinging to the right (relative to the second illustration), they’ll hit the wall of broadsides while their fronts are exposed, with no cover. Grape and chain-shot broadsides usually kill either their morale or their sails, taking care of 40-60% of their ships. And my left flank of ships pursue while my right battery swings about to prime their guns again. (Or, if they just pass through between my ships, they’ll face the right-facing broadsides into their rears before they get room to manuevre.)

It’s a bit tricky to start with, but it becomes useful in no-time.

This time, however, the enemy not only held back - they deployed in a broad reverse-crescent formation. Meaning that the start of the battle looked something like this:


**
       EEEE EEEE EEEE  
    EE                EE
EE                        EE
  3    2    1     2     3

      3              3
 
          3       3
             6
              
             6

             S
**

It was jaw-dropping to see - I literally went OW SHITE, out loud.
They had the rearwind and set sails straight ahead, keeping in formation. Since I had the wind in my face and couldn’t wheel without losing the little cohesion my formation offered me, I set up anchor and resolved to slug it. Their ships sailed straight through the holes in my formation, pounded the two flank Third Raters on the “face” of my Wedge into submission on the first pass, then went through my entire formation on one run. My sixth rates and sloop, as well as three third rates were out of commission when they came out on the other end - I was left with my flagship, my two Second-Raters and three Third-Raters.

They hadn’t lost a single ship.

And when they came through on the other end, my ships still wheeling to pass, the bastards split into groups, staggered their ships and presented their broadsides. My ships were out of range, luckily, but it was all I could do to keep the drool out of my carpet.

THE COMPUTER USED MY OWN FORMATION AGAINST ME.
If I wanted to get back into the fight, I’d had to sail my battered six ships downwind into the teeth of their broadside or swing an entire 180 degrees around their axis to isolate even one of the two groups. (Which, in itself, would have been a 1:1 battle, if I was lucky. And I certainly wouldn’t have been able to handle the other group.

I swear, my computer was wheezing laughter at me through it’s DVD drive.

So I set my teeth and made a staggered diamond formation of my ships, determined to set sail into the teeth of the smaller group. I wheel to give them a battery broadside to soften them up.

What happens?

The first shot of an enemy sloop, their first gun that came in range - A GODDAMN SLOOP! - hits the ammunition storage chamber of my Admiral Holborn’s First Rate Flagship.

It explodes.

The other ships, bewildered and demoralized by the loss, pass through the teeth of the broadsides of chain-shot and grape. Most sails are down and ships are surrendering. Then the other group swings around and takes them in the rear while they’re immobile.

I didn’t even sink a single, goddamn sloop.

Man, it was awesome.

The worst thing I’ve had happen to me in a naval engagement was for a 122 gun ship of the line to explode after being hit by a single broadside. Talk about a golden BB! I’ve also had ships catch fire and, even though they show themselves to be nearly undamaged to blow up or sink…or to suddenly start flashing that they have surrendered and to break out of formation (sometimes tangling up my own maneuver plans and totally wrecking an engagement).

I really do love this game, though still having a lot of the same issues I discussed earlier in this thread. One game play thing I’ve found is that if you research any of the philosophy stuff (necessary for both trade and to improve your universities), you WILL have a rebellion. You simply can not lower taxes enough to prevent it, and since you can’t change governments it seems inevitable. And I still haven’t figured out how to win exactly. My guess is that just prior to everything going tits up you need to move all your forces from out of the vicinity of your capital, then remove most of the troops from the capital…and then try and take it over with the rebel forces. I haven’t successfully managed to do this as in the 3 games (now) that this has happened to me I’ve had strong forces in and around the capital (in theory they were SUPPOSED to PREVENT the damn insurrection…didn’t work out obviously). I’m still trying to figure this aspect out as either you are going to lag behind technologically or you are going to get a rebellion at some point that will shatter your empire. Luckily 2 of the 3 rebellions I’ve had happened after I had already effectively won the short campaign game anyway, so it didn’t really matter.

I’m going to re-start the American campaign when I get back from my current trip (hopefully next Saturday), and I hope to be able to actually complete it as I still haven’t unlocked America as a faction and I really want to play them. I’ve played the Brits, France, Prussia and Austria so far and won with the Brits (by far the easiest faction in the game so far), France and Austria (my Prussian campaign went tits up in a massive rebellion shortly after I finished off the Austrians and Russians and I couldn’t figure out how to get around it, even going back several game play turns to earlier saves).

-XT

I think policing through army is capped at some point (ie more troops don’t do anything to order), it was that way in earlier TW games. The worst offender in that respect was Rome - enforced order was linear and capped, population growth and the disorder that came with it was exponential and *not *capped. Basically, building farms early meant death for your empire down the line, with no way to stop it. Obviously that was compounded with the slavery mechanism which boosted your home pop tremendously at the cost of even more unrest…

I dunno though, in Empire lagging behind technologically doesn’t seem all that problematic to me (as opposed to facing chivalric knights with basic spear militia :slight_smile: ). Once you’ve got the key war techs (Fire by Ranks, Exploding Shells, Square Formation and either ring or socket bayonets), your forces are about as unstoppable as they’ll ever be. The further techs don’t seem to add much, and Line Infantry is essentially what you’ll be using for all eternity anyway so the super elite versions aren’t a great need. Better guns and better horse are all right, but ultimately not that necessary either - horses get slaughtered very fast by bayonets anyway, meaning even cuirassiers are relegated to back charges and anti-cannon duty, something even militia cav does very adequately.

Same thing at sea : fourth/third rates are more than enough to rule the waves, and if all else fails you can just forget the sea alltogether and trade by land and/or ally with a naval power to deal with would-be blockaders. The economic techs also have their alternative : eat moar land ! Heh, you could even trade it for tech later on, esp. American soil which apparently the AI values more than any other for some reason.

Also, I just noticed that while early universities only give order penalty through whatever philosophy they research, the third one gives a whopping -5, just by being there. I assume the next ones are even worse. Yikes ! Seems better to have more early uni’s, which has the added benefit of spawning tons of gentlemen to rob tech like a madman - only downside being that you give up weaver/smith space - but nabbing a few trade points makes up for it I suppose.

And if all else fails, play as the Dutch - they start as a Republic, so they’ve got nowhere to revolt to ;).

Maybe I can help - I just “won” the Swedish Revolution yesterday.

By 1715, I had conquered Prussia, Poland, Denmark and Courland, and found myself in possession of 6 schools, colleges and universities, all researching like a sonuvabitch. Come 1718, revolution seemed inevitable, so I decided to induce.

I removed all my troops far away from Stockholm, raised taxes on the lower class to max, and exempted every province but Sweden. Within 2 turns, the revolution began, and I was given control of 5 militia units and 1 general, just outside of the capital - which was guarded by 3 militia units (and oddly, no firelocks - I guess the citizenry wanted to wait this one out). I stormed the city immediately, before the royalists could move the rest of their forces back in, and after a brief, dramatic battle (which ended with the striking image of my revolutionaries lining up on the fortress wall, firing down into the last royalist regiment rallied around their doomed flag), that was it. The Republic was mine, the citizens were happy, and the king lost his head.

Econ techs, especially the late ones, give a massive bonus to town wealth growth per turn in each of your regions. It ends up at like +81 per turn from enlightenment alone. Even the crummy little out-of-the-way places become valuable after a few decades. Expansion isn’t an alternative to enlightenment techs, it’s the impetus for them.

Not sure if this has been noticed/mentioned yet, but as far as I can tell the Navy selection crash bug (you select a navy and the game crashes to desktop) seems to relate to the ships’ movement ranges and how many of them it has to calculate for - I’m guessing it’s a dodgy bit of memory leakage (and that’s also why it manifests more as you get further down the naval tech path).

I’ve found that sticking a single sloop, indiaman or suchlike in each fleet of better ships counteracts it hugely - presumably it always looks for the “lowest movement ranged ship” to calculate from, and rather than trying to calculate on 5 different 3rd rates or suchlike it’s then only calculating for a single ship (and likely one with a lower range than the rest).

Yeah it decreases your overall movement possibilities slightly, and you still want to save before you trying and select a fleet, but 90% of the time it’ll creak a bit and then let you select the fleet, rather than crashing to desktop.

Once I’d worked this out I was able to retrieve a “lost” save game by building a couple of crappy ships at ports and chucking them into my existing big fleets (that were causing crashes and had my main armies on) and, after a bit of creaking, they worked again.

Not ideal certainly, but handy until a decent patch manifests.

That certainly explains why large fleets are more troublesome. I wonder if damaged ships have a reduced movement range, since fleets with damaged ships give me more trouble than fresh ships. Or maybe even ships with experience move farther, so they remain annoying after they’re repaired? It also explains why even massive fleets of dhows give me so little trouble; I keep them out of combat and they can’t use top gallants the way indiamen can.

Very cool! Thanks. That’s how I was going to try and play it out but hadn’t had a chance to try yet. I started a new American campaign just before I left on my current trip and am maybe half way through at this point. No blow ups yet. Maybe I’ll revive one of my older campaigns with Prussia or Austria when I get back and try it out.

-XT

Just out of curiosity, for those of you having problems with empire management or losing battles: what difficulty are you playing on?

E:TW has been entertaining enough, but came with the plethora of game-breaking bugs/crashes/retarded AI that I wholeheartedly expected. So far I’ve found it ridiculously easy even on VH/H (battle/campaign) and rarely lose battles, even when significantly outnumbered. The battle AI just can’t seem to form a coherent firing line, instead frequently charging cavalry forward (presumably to get my cannons) and straight into my line infantry. They die, rout, retreat, and the computer subsequently either stands there, forming/reforming square formations while I encircle it, or send ragtag handfuls of units (often just one) forward and backward until they rout from a simple, straightforward march.

While I’m not surprised with the launch quality, having played every Total War game from release, I’m a bit disappointed that the same bugs are still cropping up. Seige warfare however blessedly rare is still hilarious, and pathfinding for any unit not in an open field quickly becomes a mess.

Maybe you guys are seeing something I’m not (honestly, no snark!) but for now I’ve shelved the title until patches and mods introduce a little variety and challenge to the gameplay. Personally, I would’ve vastly preferred they scrap the navel combat system entirely and work on the land battles, which have always lacked polish. The shiny stuff, not the oddly-accented empire that swept the world in my last campaign.

Just wondering, what size units do you play with ? Dunno how true it is, but I read that the AI has trouble with unit sizes above medium (80 men to a unit). That said, even with medium units I’ve seen the AI do stupid/buggy things, but they’re not totally retarded, esp. with their cavalry which is very much a pain in the ass sometimes.