You don’t seem sufficiently convinced to point out something I said that you found worthy of such a remark.
By this logic, a police cruiser on its side in the middle of an intersection with police officers trapped inside will not help the victims of a home invasion, assault, or school shooting, either.
I’m with **jtur88 **on this one - there should be a greater element of implicitly accepted risk to life and limb with the EMT/paramedic professions. The danger should come with the trade. Not saying they should rush headlong into every situation with no regard for the dangers involved, but if a victim is bleeding to death, etc., then they shouldn’t just casually shrug and say, “We’ll wait for the cops to secure the scene first.”
This is factually true, so I don’t understand why you seem to object to this logic. A dead/injured/trapped first responder can’t help anybody. Doesn’t matter if “it’s their job,” they physically can’t.
They do accept greater risk than your average desk jockey. That doesn’t mean that they should arbitrarily ignore standard safety protocols. Emergency services have developed those protocols for a reason. How does it help anyone to rush in headlong and end up doubling the death / injury toll? How is it better to have a dead EMT along with a dead victim that the now-dead EMT couldn’t save because they were, you know, dead?
Your logic is appalling.
I can verify that anecdotally. At my workplace, someone accidentally dialed 911, then, embarrassed, hung up before actually talking to anyone. The police came to look into it.
Hades no. I drive there, but I don’t know the street number. I use street numbers to find a place for the first time, but once I know where it is, I navigate visually and by memory. I’m pretty sure most people are that way.
I could be wrong, about how fast emergency service vehicles are allowed to drive, but I always was under the impression that they are NOT to exceed the posted speed limit, but everyone is to get right the hell out of the way and yield right-of-way at intersections. That could just be local for me and mistaken to boot.
ETA one of the two times I had call 911, I didn’t know the address, I told the person “this restaurant on this street” and got the response of “we have the location from your cell phone and we have the address of that restaurant, ambulance is on the way”
My experience here in Northwest Indiana is that if someone calls 911 and hangs up a police unit will be dispatched to check things out if the location can be determined - a lot of cell phones (mine, for example) will send out a GPS location when you dial 911.
Of course, if what you actually need is an ambulance or fire truck or whatever this will cause a delay in the correct responders being sent, but they will send someone at least to see what’s happening.
(A tenant in the building was, apparently, horsing around with friends, someone dialed 911 and then hung up. Never was clear on if anything was said to the 911 person, or what might have been said if something was said. This resulted in the cops showing up and demanding to look through every unit (since they couldn’t pinpoint exactly which one the call had come from) to make sure there wasn’t something sinister going on. As I had already gone to bed for the night I was not amused at having to get up, put clothes on, and talk to the nice cops. The landlord was even less amused at getting a call from the cops and having to drive out here to open his company office for inspection.)
It’s not necessary. Your entire post is one big “WTF?”
Hell, I called the ambulance for my brother Tuesday morning, and they rolled the police as well, and this is serious small town western NY state [um, around 5000 people in town I think. An hour of conversation with my brothers bestie and I had the digest of the years best gossip … for pretty much everybody I knew growing up here.]
And the complaint for the call was shortness of breath in a pneumonia and lung cancer patient, not anything violent or drug related. Though I do understand that some of the youngsters in town are part of the small town meth and oxy plague. Back in our day it was weed and beer down at the pond … 
I can also confirm what happens when you call 911 and hang up. Late at night, i knocked the phone from my bed side table, and clumsily put it back where it belonged. A few seconds later, the police called, asking why I’d dialed 911. I explained it had been a mistake. They told me they were required to check it out. So i got dressed and greeted the police officer at the door when he arrived, shortly thereafter. He didn’t insist on going inside. I assume he could tell from my body language that i was tired but not frightened.
When it comes to colonoscopies, results are much better if someone else administers that test over self eyeballing. Just sayin’. :dubious:
To expand on what Lord Feldon said, try this scenario: A injures B, whether gun, knife, or fist doesn’t matter. B calls for an ambulance, which arrives before PD. A takes offense at EMS helping B & shoots/stabs/punches EMS. You now have two victims & 0 usable ambulances on scene because one EMT/medic can’t both drive & do patient care at the same time. This call now requires two more ambulances to come in from further away.
If there’s another, unrelated call, they’re now getting the fourth closest ambulance instead of the second closest one.
EMS duty is, in order
- to yourself
- your crew
- the patient
Did you not listen to the whole thing? They didn’t want to describe the goriness of the scene at first, but they were pretty confidently saying they thought he was dead. Toward the end she reveals that “his head’s all smashed up; he’s gone”. Sounds like even from a distance the displacement of head matter was obvious enough for them to know, and didn’t want to go in for a close look. Which is understandable.
[ul][li]the relative risk of non-fatal assault for EMS workers is roughly 30 times higher than the national average[/li][li] the number one injury to EMS providers is assault (52%)[/li][li] the risk of non-fatal assault in EMS workers is 0.6 per 100 workers per year; the national average is 1.8 per 10,000 workers per year[/li][li]Research out of Drexel University’s Dornsife School of Public Health determined that emergency medical technicians and paramedics are 14 times more likely to be violently injured on the job than the firefighters they work alongside[/li][li]the EMS assault fatality rate is seven times higher than for other health care workers. And the non‐fatal assault rate is 22 times higher than the national average.[/li][li]some form of violence occurs in 8.5 percent of patient encounters and that providers were subjected to violence directed at them in 4.5 percent of patient encounters [/li][/ul]
The agency I work for is working closely with the police and doing significant amounts of training to work with the police on active shooter scenes to more quickly treat patients. The 5280 method.
In addition, the protocol here for officers who encounter someone with excited delirium is to call an ambulance so we can manage the patient.
We take plenty of risks as it is, bringing a laryngoscope to a gun fight isn’t my idea of a good time. We are neither trained nor equipped, the police are.
St. Urho
Paramedic
My initial knee jerk response to this would have gotten me a well deserved warning, so I deleted and started over.
As delineated in the response by St. Urho, paramedics and EMTs actually do face a lot of risks on the job. And the notion that they are compensated royally is laughable.
But let me throw out a real scenario here. An emergency dispatcher doesn’t ask the right questions, and doesn’t dispatch the correct information. All available first response is sent to a rural address for an active house fire with children present. The nearest deputy is involved in a catastrophic traffic accident because some numbnuts fails to yield. (Deputy should have just hit numbnuts - it would have hurt less. But no game was ever won by a Monday morning quarterback.)
Now we have a further-limited set of responders, and twice as many scenes. The deputy is upside down in a ditch. The children may be trapped in the burning house. Those paramedics are still en route to the house, though, because that’s how it works. Ten minutes after the injured deputy calls in his own wreck, the householder at the alleged fire address is telling responders “no, I smelled something burning, and wanted to see if a unit was available with an infrared camera to check for a hot spot in the wall.” Deputy is still hanging upside down in his destroyed car. By the time anyone gets to him, it’s now 15 minutes since his radio distress call. Because a dispatcher didn’t get the information before she started units to the first scene.
I’m the wife of that deputy. 3.5 years later, we are dealing with all of the aftermath of a dispatcher who didn’t do the job correctly. Accurate information is important. Not bedside manner.
To analogize, 9-1-1 is more like True-Valu Hardware than Burger King.
True-Valu is a cooperative of independently run businesses. And each has the leeway to do things in its own way. So do 9-1-1 centers.
Burger King is a franchise system with detailed procedures for damn near everything. There are step-by-step directions on how to cook a Whopper that are expected to be followed every single time and at every location.
While there are a couple of national trade groups for the 9-1-1 industry and there are recommended practices from those groups, nevertheless all procedures are ultimately left to the local 9-1-1 center to work out with the responding agencies they support.
Incidentally NENA(the National Emergency Number Association) recommends some best practices that run counter to what some Dopers have experienced. Recommendations include:[ul]
[li] If you call 9-1-1 and hang up before talking to the operator the recommendation is for the 9-1-1 operator to call back once and only once. If the call goes to voicemail no message is to be left. If the call rings busy, no further call back is required.[/li][li] It is the discretion of the operator whether to dispatch for an open line call (call connects and the 9-1-1 operator hears ambient noise but no caller speaking) so long as steps are taken to check if it is a TDD/TTY call. Best practices do not require sending police to every hang up or open line call.[/ul][/li]
There is no guarantee that police will respond to a 9-1-1 hang up call. And that would not necessarily violate any procedure or recommendation. Many communities simply do not have enough police to make such checks as open line calls, hangs up, and mis-dials may account for more than 50% of all calls.
Similarly some communities will have local procedures that include sending police to EMS calls. Police can look out for safety of the EMTs, checks for signs of suspicious circumstances, and assist the EMTs if needed. Local protocol dictates all.
Given how widely local conditions can vary giving each 911 center discretion for how to set up their own standard procedures is probably a good thing. Emergency response in, say, rural Wyoming is far different than emergency response in an urban ghetto. The Wyoming guys probably don’t have to worry much about drive-by shootings by gang-members, and the urban folks probably don’t have to worry much about large, dangerous wildlife being on scene. Rinse and repeat for a lot of different variables.
Seems to be a reasonable response for 911 dispatcher, perhaps not the best, but reasonable.
She needed to get more information before dispatching emergency services, was the police needed (was there are foul play, is a faster initial person on scene needed), was the fire dept needed for extracting the person from under the Polarus, do they have their own EMS?
The woman who goes on describing the background info was not what the dispatcher needed, but it did serve to get the woman on track and focused on answering the needed questions.
911 scandals aren’t what they used to be.
I only listened to the first 50 seconds - and I totally undestand the whole fog of war thing, but the obviously need some info in order to do their job.
Saying a “Polaris” - which I have no idea what it is - based on title I’ll assume it’s an ATV - isn’t much help.
Why anyone would use language like “send a fucking ambulance” when they are trying to get help for their friend is beyond me. I don’t mind language, but people seem to have no clues how to interact with others sometimes.
I’ve heard 9/11 calls before that were awful public servants.
Lacking further context (i.e., based on only OP and a few posts afterward, and not being able to follow the links), I was wondering why someone was lying possibly dead next to an obsolete submarine-launched ballistic missile.
I guess I really shouldn’t try to join the exciting and lucrative world of emergency dispatch. 
And if you’re not talking to a fucking idiot, that takes less than 20 seconds.
No, Kid Rock and friend wasted that time. It would not be terribly difficult to simply state that there was a traffic accident and the rider of the ATV appears to be head, with his head smashed in.
For which she had stated that the phone was breaking up.
No. She was doing a decent job, working with idiots.