I’ve read Ender’s Game 6 or 7 times, and I absolutely love that book. It’s one of my favorites ever. In fact, I purposely didn’t read Speaker For The Dead because I thought no sequel could live up to the quality of the first book.
Until last week. I burned through both books in 3 days, completing my first trip through Lusitania, and I loved the second one just as much, though it’s very different.
So, who has read the whole Ender series? Do you recommend that I read Xenocide? Or should I quit while I’m ahead.
Spoilers are ok as long as you put a spoiler warning
I wouldn’t mind a discussion of the first two books in this thread either, but I’m not going to start it.
Personally, I didn’t like Xenocide, particularly the ending… but Children of the mind was good and there by made Xenocide (the weird ending resolves it’s self).
What you should read, with out a doubt, is Ender’s shadow. Ender’s Shadow is the same story as Ender’s game but from the perspective of Bean. IMO I thought Ender’s shadow was better.
I have to disagree with everyone here. I thought Xenocide was excellent, and I thought Children of the Mind was a weak attempt to wrap the story up cleanly.
I also did not like Ender’s Shadow very much, but I will say that may have been a personal thing – I found the specifics of Bean’s background disturbing because of his age.
Joe_Cool, I’d love to discuss any and all of the books you mentioned. You go first
Ok, ok, if you insist. One thing struck me that I hadn’t noticed before on my last reading. I don’t know if there’s any controversy about it, but I believe that on some level, Ender knew going in that it wasn’t just a game. I believe he let himself be convinced that it was.
I don’t have my copy here, so I can’t cite passages, but I’ll know them when I see them. It was connected with his dreams.
Sorry, but that’s the best thing that I can think of. Hope it’s good enough as a discussion seed.
I thought Speaker for the Dead was a great book, definitely a worthy follow up to Ender’s Game. I was with Xenocide until the end. Children of the Mind was unimpressive overall. Definitely a mediocre effort.
S P O I L E R S ! (But only if you haven’t read the last two books.)
The part that really lost me and removed me from the series was when Ender split into his three separate bodies/personalities. An interesting idea, but fatally flawed characterwise. Which may be the main gripe I have with the entire last book. Card was always at risk of letting his characters speak the philosophy of the book at the sacrifice of their actual character. I think he completely loses his handle in the last book. All the characters are always arguing a certain point back and forth. But it feels like they are arguing this point because they must for Card to make his point, not because of what their insides tell them. The splitting of Ender makes this gripe blatantly physical.
Don’t even get me started on the actual end of the series. If it took two books to wrap up all the plot points in Xenocide, why introduce the descolada planet and leave us hanging at that? Very unprofessional, Orson.
Guess I’ll go read Ender’s Game and forgive him all over again.
I’ve read all of them multiple times, and will read the new books (Shadow of the Giant and Shadow of Death are the working titles, I believe) as soon as they are published.
Read them. I liked Xenocide a lot. Not as good as either Ender or Speaker, but very good. Children of the Mind is (IMHO) the weakest book of the whole bunch, but if you’re in this far you might as well read it. If you don’t you’ll always wonder about it and it doesn’t suck THAT much.
Ender’s Shadow is pretty good, mainly because you get to know Bean a lot better. Shadow of the Hegemon was on about the same level, good but not great.
I really hope that future books explore the character of Peter in some detail. Since he’s kind of Ender’s alter ego (I know, I know, he’s just half of it and Val is the other half, but Val is the good half and therefore just a little boring) I think he’s the second most interesting character in the whole series.
So in my personal rating scale, Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead are on a level all by themselves that few books of any type have ever reached. Xenocide, Ender’s Shadow, and Shadow of the Hegemon are good enjoyable books but not earth-shaking. Children of the Mind is pretty weak and only worth a read because if you don’t you’ll always wonder what you missed.
I was a little disappointed when I started Speaker For The Dead, because like you, I wanted to read more about Peter. I was really hoping I’d get to read “The Hive Queen and the Hegemon” when I read it. That is what I’d really like to see as part of the series.
I read anything I can get my hands on by Card. I absolutely loved Ender’s Game, and have read it many times. I also thought Speaker for the Dead was very good, though not on a level with EG. I enjoyed Xenocide, for the most part. Especially the stuff on the world of Path and OCD. For Children of the Mind, I would have to concur with the general opinion here: not so great, but you have to read it anyway.
And I really, really like Ender’s Shadow! I think I maybe liked it even better than Ender’s Game, although I don’t know if I would have liked it as much had I not read Ender’s Game first. Ender’s Game was one of OSC’s earlier efforts, before he was prone to writing such large tomes. So he had a chance to really flesh out the story in ES.
I haven’t read Shadow of the Hegemon yet. I’m waiting for the paperback. ($23 for a book? No, thanks.)
BTW,
(I suppose this could really be another thread, but…)
Anybody read Pastwatch? I thought it was pretty impressive.
My local library has a very good OSC selection. They even have the HC Shadow of the Hegemon (of course I bought it first). Card is far and away my favorite writer. He has a pretty good message board himself over at http://www.hatrack.com.
I agree with the assessment. Ender’s Game is the best. Speaker is incredible. The remaining two have their momnets. NOTE: I read once (possibly in the intro) that Xenocide and Children of the Mind were once intended to be ONE book, but expanded into two.
I love the Bean series. Hegemon really stopped being TOO Sci-Fi and became more military strategy. (Getting past the ten year old genius/generals). I will certainly get the next two novels.
As for other Card books, I enjoyed all five Homecoming novels. I have read the first Alvin Maker novel, but I notice that he is not prioritizing that series as a series to finish, so I am waiting for him to put a few more out before proceeding with book 2.
I read Worthing Saga. It is a group of related short stories. Hard Sci-Fi. Good stuff.
I even read Folk of the Fringe. A post apocalyptic world where Mormons (OSC is a devout Mormon)rebuild America. I’m not Mormon, but the book wasn’t “preachy.” If you hate all things religious, this may not be the book for you. Good story telling. Also in related short story format.
I also bought his non-fiction, How to Write Sci-Fi.
I have a copy of Lost Boys, but haven’t read it. I really want to read Pastwatch.
I’d kill for a chance to read “The Hive Queen and the Hegemon”! Although having said that I don’t think OSC should so much as let the thought of writing such a thing drift through the most remote reaches of his mind. No way could it ever live up to my expectations.
The Homecoming series was OK, not great. I liked Folk of the Fringe, really liked Worthing Saga. Pastwatch I thought was his best effort (at least non-Ender related) in a long time, very good.
The Alvin Maker series has been mostly good but is in serious danger of going nowhere and dragging on forever if the last book (forget the name) is any indication. I’m getting to the point that I think it might be more interesting to follow Taleswapper around than Alvin.
He does a very good job with short stories as well. I really liked the one that goes into some detail of Ender and Jane’s first meeting, but I can’t think of any of his short stories I haven’t enjoyed.
On the other hand Treasure Box, Lost Boys, Wyrms, and Songbird didn’t do much for me at all. Never read Hart’s Hope, or the Mormon saga book (Saints?), but probably will eventually.
I read the fairy-tale book (the title escapes me) and liked that too.
Well, I can’t make too much of this discussion-wise, as you haven’t read the book yet that explores this. But I will say that you’re pretty observant to note that it is WORTH exploring. I think it is alluded to in the first book, too.
Are any of you familiar with Card’s religious beliefs and how he explores them himself through his writing? He’s a pretty outspoken Mormon, and I find it very interesting that in the Ender books, he almost seems to be making a case in favor of secularity (is that a word?)
[minimally fractional hijack]
anyone read Ender’s Shadow yet? it’s just basically Ender’s Game from Bean’s point of view. it gives some verrrrrrrrrrrry interesting background about Bean… (i know, i know, no spoilers. just some teeeeeeeasing hints… :D) I think Ender’s Shadow is as good as Ender’s Game, actually. but Ender’s Game is already really good.
[/hijack]
watsonwil, have you got a link handy? I’ve read some of Card’s non-fictional writing, but most of it was sent to me edited, as a debate topic, so I’m only familiar with a bit. It will be interesting to pursue this.
Know Ender’s Game is one of my all-time faves. And bean was one of the better character’s/ So I was extremely eager for Ender’s Shadow, but I have to say that overall it was quite a disappointment.
Bean was TOO intelligent. TOO developed. And most importantly far too knowledgable of what was going on. It would have been far more interesting to see ot from the persepctive of the Bean we’d known in the original. The petulant but talented kid who was in the dark like all the others. From a literary standpoint I can see how it would have made a lesser story in its own right but let’s face it - who was reading it in its own right? It was a supplemental (a sure thing for diehard fans) - it didn’t need Bean to be approaching God status.
Personal opinion but his advanced state ruined it a little for me. It was great fun reading and coming accross familiar dialogue again especially from the other perspectives, but the undercurrent let me down a bit. Enjoyed it but nowhere near as much as I’d hoped or expected to.
Did you not get it that Bean was genetically engineered to be a super genius?
Still, it did perhaps go a bit far, him being smart enough to hide out in a toilet tank at less than a year old…
But it wasn’t much of a problem for me, anyway.
RESPONSE TO SPOILER CONTAINING ADDITIONAL SPOILERS:
Tapswiller, I think he gets it. I think he’d prefer if Bean was an ordinary kid with an ordinary viewpoint, which we would have assumed of his character from the first book. It’s hinted to that Bean is extremely smart, but he seems altogether more human in the first book. Then, Card goes on to say that, really, Bean isn’t quite. I also think this book very much diminishes Ender’s story, because we find out that Bean was manipulating him, as well. Ender is supposed to be this very insightful kid, who can figure out what people are trying to get from him – and if Bean’s story is “true” (in fictional terms of course) then Ender really isn’t… which calls his later insights into question as well.
