I hope you don’t mind a personal question, couldn’t think of anywhere else to ask… Are there any engineers out there? How difficult would it be for someone with only science background (not engineering) to get a sufficiently interesting (intellectually challenging) job as an engineer? I just got a Master’s in astronomy but I just realized the only part of it I enjoy are the technical design and problem-solving, not the pure science, and I’m not sure if I can pretend to be a scientist for another 3 yeras to finish the Ph.D program. Oh, and how much harder would it be for a non-citizen (non-resident) to find such a job in the US? My Bachelor’s degree is from a reasonably well regarded U.S. college, but not my Master’s. Any good resources, on-line or off, for starting to look for such career opportunities?
My wife is an industrial engineer which means she spends a lot of time with statistics, project management, process engineering, databases, and studies. Probably not the engineering choice for someone with a hardcore science background, but it seems like a pretty fun choice (but then again I am an accountant, so working with numbers is a fun thing for me.)
Scr4 -
From one ME/astronomer to another:
Well, I guess I am the best man to answer this one! Why? Well, I’m a mechanical engineer (ME), and my roommate was an astronomy major in college (w/initials ironically src) who’s now a Ph.D. in astronomy. (And, I have studied astronomy at Johns Hopkins.)
Here’s the deal: It sounds like the ME route might be best for you, but it’s a hell of a long road. I know the curriculum you’ve studied which included thermo and fluids as applied to astronomical problems.
BUT! The ME world is very different. You will probably have to take upper level thermo courses for MEs solving problems involving power cycles. You will learn more than you ever wanted to know about steam properties and the analysis of numerous power cycles used by power plants for power generation. You will also learn about refrigeration cycles, etc. Fluids will have a new twist, too. You will learn about the flow of fluids through pipes and the laws of hydraulics.
Then, there’s the ever-lovely sequence of courses on structures. From beams to trusses, you will rigorously learn more than you ever wanted to know the dozens of ways to evaluate structures. Also, you’ll learn about the behavior of materials, too.
Along the way, you’ll take some dull labs, too.
The ME route is very demanding. The joy of problem solving may not even await you in the end…unless you wish to stay working for some university most of your life.
As for jobs, it is highly dependent on where you live in the USA. The North and East are saturated with engineers, and you’ll be struggling to find anything satisfying here. Other parts of the country, they say, are in need of MEs, but there’s a lot of dirty work to be done, too.
The ME life is not glamorous at all. And, you can invest a lot of time and money into a dead-end career. The long road you pursue for your pot of gold (the joy of solving problems) will wear down, and if not, then you can lament like many of us now-wiser MEs who wonder why the heck we did this to ourselves in the first place.
The engineering life is not very self-rewarding. You’ll be a martyr for a lost cause. Take my advice, if you have the money…go to med school! Whatever path you pick, just remember it’s a long-term economical committment, so don’t let it take you to the cleaners, either!
In short, both med school and the ME program is quite daunting. Yet, at least from med school, the juice you will collect later is well worth the squeeze you put in now. This is not true for MEs, and MEs are highly suseptible to lay-offs and relocation. Not easy things to face once your married esp. with kids! Look at the big picture!
(Oh, who do you think gets the girls, anyway? MEs or doctors? Also, who do you think makes the big bucks in the long run? Yeah, I’m not money hungry, but you cannot afford to just be “comfortable” as the US economy and your age factor will leave you in the dust.)
I wish someone would have sat me down to talk to me about my choice before I started down this dead-end road. Good luck! I hope you will heed my advice!
PS: That’s why I say they’re coming to take me away… 
“They’re coming to take me away ha-ha, ho-ho, hee-hee, to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time… :)” - Napoleon IV
Scr4 -
From one ME/astronomer to another:
Well, I guess I am the best man to answer this one! Why? Well, I’m a mechanical engineer (ME), and my roommate was an astronomy major in college (w/initials ironically src) who’s now a Ph.D. in astronomy. (And, I have studied astronomy at Johns Hopkins.)
Here’s the deal: It sounds like the ME route might be best for you, but it’s a hell of a long road. I know the curriculum you’ve studied which included thermo and fluids as applied to astronomical problems.
BUT! The ME world is very different. You will probably have to take upper level thermo courses for MEs solving problems involving power cycles. You will learn more than you ever wanted to know about steam properties and the analysis of numerous power cycles used by power plants for power generation. You will also learn about refrigeration cycles, etc. Fluids will have a new twist, too. You will learn about the flow of fluids through pipes and the laws of hydraulics.
Then, there’s the ever-lovely sequence of courses on structures. From beams to trusses, you will rigorously learn more than you ever wanted to know the dozens of ways to evaluate structures. Also, you’ll learn about the behavior of materials, too.
Along the way, you’ll take some dull labs, too.
The ME route is very demanding. The joy of problem solving may not even await you in the end…unless you wish to stay working for some university most of your life.
As for jobs, it is highly dependent on where you live in the USA. The North and East are saturated with engineers, and you’ll be struggling to find anything satisfying here. Other parts of the country, they say, are in need of MEs, but there’s a lot of dirty work to be done, too.
The ME life is not glamorous at all. And, you can invest a lot of time and money into a dead-end career. The long road you pursue for your pot of gold (the joy of solving problems) will wear down, and if not, then you can lament like many of us now-wiser MEs who wonder why the heck we did this to ourselves in the first place.
The engineering life is not very self-rewarding. You’ll be a martyr for a lost cause. Take my advice, if you have the money…go to med school! Whatever path you pick, just remember it’s a long-term economical committment, so don’t let it take you to the cleaners, either!
In short, both med school and the ME program is quite daunting. Yet, at least from med school, the juice you will collect later is well worth the squeeze you put in now. This is not true for MEs, and MEs are highly suseptible to lay-offs and relocation. Not easy things to face once your married esp. with kids! Look at the big picture!
(Oh, who do you think gets the girls, anyway? MEs or doctors? Also, who do you think makes the big bucks in the long run? Yeah, I’m not money hungry, but you cannot afford to just be “comfortable” as the US economy and your age factor will leave you in the dust.)
I wish someone would have sat me down to talk to me about my choice before I started down this dead-end road. Good luck! I hope you will heed my advice!
PS: That’s why I say they’re coming to take me away…
“They’re coming to take me away ha-ha, ho-ho, hee-hee, to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time… :)” - Napoleon IV
Sorry for the double-shot of advice!
“Dechnical Tifficulties”! 
“They’re coming to take me away ha-ha, ho-ho, hee-hee, to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time… :)” - Napoleon IV
SCR, What was your undergraduate degree in?
I agree with some of what Jinx said, but my experience has been more positive. For your info I received my undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering (ME) and recently completed my MBA. If I had to do it over again I would still get my ME degree (or maybe a different engineering degree) for undergraduate.
The thing that Jinx failed to mention is that the majority of engineers I know, really don’t do engineering anymore. Many are in sales, management, marketing, finance, etc.
I worked in design, operations, and sales for a couple of years than after my MBA I became a marketing manager. I have found that the ME / MBA combination is very valuable in the workforce. Employers know that you are technically skilled and the MBA rounds you out by providing business knowledge.
In today’s technical society it is very important to be able to handle technical issues. Having an engineering degree assures employers that you are up to the challange.
Many jobs I have seen either require or prefer someone with an engineering undergrad. If you are thinking graduate engineering that is a different issue. My experience has shown that people with graduate engineering degrees get pigeonholed into certain types of work. I believe this is Jinx’s issue. That path I wouldn’t recommend unless you really LOVE your specialty.
Good Luck!
“It’s like banging your head against a wall because it feels so good when you stop.”
I switched from physics to mechanical engineering in my junior year. Fortunately most of the course work up to that point had been general education and science and math courses that were applicable to both disciplines, so it didn’t cost me much in added college time. However, (and my point is) for most of my working life (nearly 20 years) I’ve been working as a software engineer. I don’t think I’ve ever specifically had that title, but that describes best what I do.
The engineering degree opened the doors but once I was working they were more interested in what I could do than they were in what my diploma said. Science degrees can do the same thing. The company I work for (Boeing) hires engineers and scientists. Having a degree that’s different from the run-of-the-mill applicant may be an asset. My boss is a mathematician, the guy in the next cubicle has some sort of technical degree (I think it’s C.S.) So from where I sit, it seems pretty likely you could get hired and do interesting and challenging work.
A word of warning, however. A lot of the interesting technical jobs are in either very large companies, like Boeing, or very small, highly specialized, three-or-four person shops. Both of these have some pitfalls. I don’t know about the small shops, but working for a large company requires a lot of patience and a large tolerance for bureaucracy. If you can get past that stuff, it can be fun.
he sleeps on that pile/of newspapers/in the corner/and when he
takes off his/shoes you cannot/smell his breath
“king nicky”, archyology
Don Marquis
Thanks for all the great advice, everyone! You gave me a lot of things to think about. I actually have a lot of obligations and responsibilities so it’s difficult to leave my current group till the end of the year, but I’ve got to think about what to do after that, finish my Ph.D, get higher education in another field, or just find a job. Med school would be a good career, I agree, but it seems like too big a change, and I’ve never felt much interest in it to be honest. ME sounds like quite a daunting undertaking as well. Last week I needed to learn about control theory, which I quite enjoyed, but I guess that was the most clean and glamorous part of the whole package of tools a ME needs.
My undergrad degree is physics/astronomy, and Master’s is in astronomy. Most of my work is in developing and using X-ray detectors, plus data analysis. Maybe I should try approaching copanies that work with medical or remote sensing detectors. Or maybe computer work is easier to get into? That’s another part of my work I enjoy - developing useful tools.
A quick way to get into the engineering field is to lear a CAD (computer aided design) system. I know of many unlearned people who are making good money in many different fields just because the are able to
use the latest technology.
You already have a masters, just take some design courses at a local tech college and then start applying for CAD designer positions. Once you are in a company for a while (or several contract jobs) it would become appsrtent that you have more education that could be applied in other areas.
GE medical in Wisconcion designes
Open MRI systems and is always looking for people to go up to the great white north. So I firms in Cedar Rapids that make EMI shielded devices for the military and places in Seattle that make FLIR (forward looking Infared) too name just a few.
Learn to draw on a computer, it is an easy way to start and it is a skill that alot of engineering types
don’t take seriously enough.
CADs are definitely useful for engineers, but you won’t get into any design-type courses for a year or two. (I’m a Chemical Engineer, not an ME, but most of the basic coursework was the same. You might want to look into a “bridging program” from science to engineering. However, these are usually only offered for related majors, like Physics --> Mechanical Eng and Chemistry --> Chemical Engineering. I don’t know if you’ll find anything for Astronomers. If you do become an engineer: Stay away from car companies. They are far more demanding of their engineers than many other employers. That’s why I’m going for a master in plastics technology.
–It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.
No, not a design degree from a university, just some drafting courses at ITT or such.
I personally know of several people with little more than a high diploma who have done this and are pulling in over 80K. Someone with a degree and some creative initiative could easly do this or better is all I was sugeesting.
But there are many paths, some engineers I know are disillusioned with engineerning, they are not doing what the went to school for, they end up managing projects instead of making things and figuring out puzzels. Be sure to explore all aspects of your career change.
GOOD LUCK!Software engineering… aka computer programming, is definitely the way to go. The demand for programmers is so great that anyone with any kind of science degree and familiarity with computers can get started.
One word of warning. Read Dilbert at http://www.dilbert.com first. It’s documentary, not satire! This is our world.
He’s the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armor, shouting ‘All Gods are Bastards!’
I always thought engineers were the guys who ‘drove’ trains…
Hey, driving trains sounds fun too.
Anyway, it sounds like it would’t hurt to get more programming and/or CAD work. As I said I’ve got almost a year to think about it. Thanks again for the advice, you guys are awesome.
I’m still not sure what it means to be good at CAD. I’ve been using consumer CAD and 3D graphics programs (TurboCAD, Shade, DesignCAD 3D) and for my modest needs, I never thought they’re something you have to go to school to learn. Is it more to do with learning the accepted guidelines of how to present designs? Or is it the better capabilities of the more expensive software?
Being good at CAD? Well, let’s see…
Every physical product you can image has to have a set of detailed drawings made and kept up to date
in order for it to be manufactured. A very time consuming tedious process.
You can learn most of what you need to know by taking a technical drawing class at a local community college.
Most of the work can be done on low level systems that only use 2D
(such as AutoCad). Very easy to learn and a good starting place to see if you like doing that sort of thing.
Larger companies use more sophisicated 3D (solid modeling) systems such as Pro-E, Catia, Ideas or Solidworks. Some of these systems have very in depth features that even experianced users never use unless a paticular job demands it. Even with these systems 2D drawings must be made to communicate with the world at large. (paperless is only in its infancy).
In addition there is huge demand for people who can manage this data
and keep the record keeping straight.
I work with several non-engineers in my present position, one is a psyhcology grad who manages the data another is a history grad with a 2 year degree that runs the CAD department!
I went to high school with a guy who would lie about his qualifactions to get training on the companies CAD systems, after being fired several times (after several weeks of paid training) he finally got a full time job that paid 40K a year plus overtime. I don’t recomend this, but you can see where I am getting at.
I you have any initive and show up to work sober and consistantly on time you should have no problem. If you are good, then that is a plus but not usally a requirement for starting out. After you learn to draw they may recoginize you as an intellegent person with a degreem that will give you an advantahe when it is time to move up.
I can only assume that programming is similar.
In short, going ME, prepare to chart a new course again in near future upon graduating.
But, to keep pace with this fast-paced world, most of us will change careers several times in our vocational lifetimes.
From my experience, I agree that rarely does a ME actually do pure ME-related work in the real world (away from the ivory towers). Many MEs do go for a MBA degree, and I 've heard that supposedly Quality Control engineering is in demand (lots of statistical analysis - quite ho-hum boring, IMHO.)
In light of my initial posting, I must yield to the fact that the medical route, nowadays, may not be paved with gold, either. The HMOs are pushing doctors into financial pigeon holes, etc. Physical therapy might be more your speed, if anything medical. It seems to be quite an affluent field still from my small view based on a friend doing quite well for herself straight out of a PT program. These programs are highly competitve, however.
A fellow ME and I were discussing your question over lunch. He feels a degree in marketing would be the way to go. If you’re outgoing enough, you can claim your fortune, perhaps. But, everything is a gamble. For every success story, I wonder how many “bust” stories there are.
Control theory is another series of courses a ME must endure. With your background, it’d boil down to old hat. It starts off with writing and solving ordinary differential equations (ODE) to model basic kinomatics and mechanics of systems. In the mid-level course, you apply LaPlace transforms to find the solutions. The upper class gets into very abstract and theoretical concepts to the point where any practical use seems lost. The mathematics turn weird; difficult yet not totally impossible.
“They’re coming to take me away ha-ha, ho-ho, hee-hee, to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time… :)” - Napoleon IV
get a degree in C.S and work with software, go with the money. The hard-ware is way ahead of the software these days. Go for the software.