Engineering licenses, again: One very specific question:

[Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus]

Some of you will recall the LONG thread concerning engineering licences, correct use of the title ‘Engineer’, and so forth, with even Anthracite agreeing that anyone who’d gone through all the hoops to get a BS in engineering science, and was employed somewhere in an engineering capacity, could justly style themselves ‘Engineer’.

Well, I just happened to look up the California law concerning this, and it turns out that its illegal in just about any circumstance to call yourself any type of engineer unless you’ve got the license. It seems that even if you describe yourself as an engineer in casual conversation, because you’ve got the bachelor’s degree, you’re a lawbreaker. So my question is this: Let’s say you graduate with a BSEE and go to work at Verizon, what CAN you call yourself? What do you put on your business card until several years down the road when you do get your license?

[etgaw1]

I would think you are what your job title is. If you job title is Engineer you are an Engineer. You my not be a professional engineer but you would on you buisness card you would put something like:

javaman
Verizon
Engineer

(555) 121-2121

If the state has a beef with that they can take it up with the company you work at. I could be wrong though

[kpm]

In most states it is OK if your job title is engineer even if you are not a PE. It is not OK to market your services to other companies as an engineer (as a consultant) if you are not a PE. Most PE’s are in civil engineering and construction. IBM , AT&T and companies like that do not need you to be a PE when they hire you to design computers and other products.

[Una_Persson]

*Originally posted by javaman *
**Well, I just happened to look up the California law concerning this, and it turns out that its illegal in just about any circumstance to call yourself any type of engineer unless you’ve got the license. It seems that even if you describe yourself as an engineer in casual conversation, because you’ve got the bachelor’s degree, you’re a lawbreaker. So my question is this: Let’s say you graduate with a BSEE and go to work at Verizon, what CAN you call yourself? What do you put on your business card until several years down the road when you do get your license? **

I’m only a bit familiar with CA and it’s situation. IIRC, like many laws of this sort, CA put it into place but does not actively prosecute. And thus many people ignore it.

To answer your question - what is it that one does at Verizon? Design cell tower structures? Set up networks? Code? Regardless of how I feel about the use of the title (and javaman, I think you have a good idea), if CA says you cannot use the title, then you need to find another. “Telecommunications Structural Designer”, “Network Systems Planner and Implementer”, and “Maximum Procounsel of Software Design” all sound a whole Hell of a lot more impressive than:

Engineer.

[kanicbird]

In NY the PE exam is in 2 parts, the 1st part you can take right out of college and you become a EIT or engineer in training, then after working for some years you can go for your PE.
I think both can use the term engineer, but not the P part

[douglips]

*Originally posted by javaman *
**Well, I just happened to look up the California law concerning this, and it turns out that its illegal in just about any circumstance to call yourself any type of engineer unless you’ve got the license. **

Please, help us out with a cite. Can you give us a section number or a URL? California’s legal codes can be searched online at http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html .

I couldn’t find anything exactly like you describe, here is the closest I could get:
From Business and Professions Code SECTION 6700-6706.3:

6704. In order to safeguard life, health, property, and public welfare, no person shall practice civil, electrical, or mechanical engineering unless appropriately registered or specifically exempted from registration under this chapter, and only persons registered under this chapter shall be entitled to take and use the titles “consulting engineer,” “professional engineer,” or “registered engineer,” or any combination of those titles, and according to registration with the board the engineering branch titles specified in Section 6732, or the authority titles specified in Section 6763, or “engineer-in-training.”

From SECTION 6730-6749

6732. It is unlawful for anyone other than a professional engineer licensed under this chapter to stamp or seal any plans, specifications, plats, reports, or other documents with the seal or stamp of a professional engineer, or in any manner, use the title “professional engineer,” “licensed engineer,” “registered engineer,” or “consulting engineer,” or any of the following branch titles: “agricultural engineer,” “chemical engineer,” “civil engineer,” “control system engineer,” “electrical engineer,” “fire protection engineer,” “industrial engineer,” “manufacturing engineer,” “mechanical engineer,” “metallurgical engineer,” “nuclear engineer,” “petroleum engineer,” or “traffic engineer,” or any combination of these words and phrases or abbreviations thereof unless licensed under this chapter.

From SECTION 6750-6766

6763. Application for authority to use the title “structural engineer,” “soil engineer,” “soils engineer,” or “geotechnical engineer” shall be made to the board on forms prescribed by it and shall be accompanied by the application fee fixed by this chapter. An applicant for authority to use the title “structural engineer,” “soil engineer,” “soils engineer,” or “geotechnical engineer” who has passed the examination prescribed by the board, or an applicant for authority to use the title “soil engineer,” “soils engineer,” or “geotechnical engineer” whose application is submitted prior to July 1, 1986, and who has otherwise demonstrated that he or she is qualified, shall have a certificate of authority issued to him or her.

For purposes of this chapter, an authority to use the title “structural engineer,” “soil engineer,” “soils engineer,” or “geotechnical engineer” is an identification of competence and specialization in a subspecialty of civil engineering and necessitates education or experience in addition to that required for registration as a civil engineer.

I see nothing that prevents use of just the word “Engineer”, or combinations not specifically excluded such as “Software Engineer”, or “Circuit Design Engineer”, or “Hair Style Engineer”, but I didn’t look excessively hard. Can you help out?

[sub]I’m not making a statement as to the good/bad nature of titles such as “Software Engineer” and “Hair Style Engineer”, just the legality.[/sub]

Oh, and by the way, the original thread: Engineering License? This turned into a great debate.

[Rich_G7subs]

I am not a “degreed” Engineer,but I am an Engineer nonetheless.I currently hold a NJ state Refrigeration Engineers License which allows me to operate Ammonia Ref. plants.My job title is Operating ENGINEER…so that’s what I call myself when people ask.