Of course, the relationship between Sinn Fein and the (Provisional) IRA has never been easy to pin down.
No, it was called something else. It was a ‘foreign’ phrase that translated to something in English. But since I don’t want to open the door for al-Queda lurkers to link to their cause, I’d prefer it just die now. If anyone wants to let me know, email is in the profile. Note: attachments are blocked
It’s not a priority on my list right now anyway.
Thinking of it, Friends of Sinn Fein (How the hell do you get the accent mark?) must be, duh :smack: , the Sinn Fein arm in the US. I was right, I guess, remembering the site that was the US support arm of the IRA.
The Republican movement hold him up as a past hero. They are carrying on the same fight in their opinon.
What I don’t get is just why it is still such an emotive issue. I mean, both the UK and the Republic of Ireland are modern, civilised nations. They are both members of the EU. They both have an enviable standard of living. So why is it such a big deal which country is ruling you? I know there is a lot of history and bloodshed on both sides, but let’s face it - what difference, on a day-to-day level, would it make to your average Irish/Northern Irish citizen whether they pay their taxes to the London (via Belfast) or Dublin?
I can see why, say, Kurds might feel the need for violent action, as their culture was actively being repressed in Turkey and Iraq, but surely this could never happen in modern Ireland. Is it purely a matter of pride and history?
It doesn’t matter to Unionists, though they wouldn’t like the situation to change. But as far as many Nationalists, and all Republicans, are concerned, they’re under occupation. And nobody but nobody - no matter where you’re from - wants to be ruled over by a system that they perceive as illegitimate.
I’m a Brit too, so I find it hard to understand what it’s like to perceive one’s country as occupied. But it’s necessary to try to empathise. Would you be happy to let the US take over the UK tomorrow, because “let’s face it - what difference, on a day-to-day level, would it make to your average UK citizen”? Or alternatively, imagine if France was holding onto Kent, and had done for centuries, only having kicked out of the rest of England 80 years ago. And within living memory, the French had been oppressing the ethnically English population of Kent, while giving political and economic benefits to ethnically French people there.
That too, I guess.
I’m going to go where you didn’t, but only for camparison. I’m only using this to put into context what you said. Not a slam.
Based on the quoted portion, can I assume I’ll never see a negative word on your part in reference to the Iraq war? Even buying into “Halliburton Controls the World[sup]TM[/sup]”, there is still some semblence of order and reform. And what does it matter who’s in charge, as long as the electricity is on.
You mean I get a say in it? Won’t somebody let Mr Blair know, please?
Seriously, though, good points. Although I don’t think I would be aggrieved enough to take up arms, certainly as long as we Brits still had our rights as citizens. We’re not talking about a totalitarian regime here, after all.
When the modern troubles started the nationalist community didn’t feel they had all the rights that other citizens of the UK had.
Going back in time we Irish certainly didn’t have full rights under British rule.
They didn’t feel they had them because they did not. The Troubles could have been avoided if ulster had not been a gerrymandered Protestant state and society. Deny people even the possibility of peaceful addressing of grievances and inevitably some will turn to violence.
It could have been Cairde. That translates to “Friends” and is what the SF support group is known as in some countries.
There isn’t any organisation that I’m aware of that advertises itself as the support arm of the IRA - for obvious reasons. When people mention an organisation in that context it’s invariably Noraid they’re referring to.
Nitpick: “Ulster” wasn’t. Ulster is a nine-county province, of which three counties are in the Republic.
I stand corrected.
It matters a great deal to a lot of people who live in Northern Ireland - myself included. I don’t know where you live - but would you like your country handed over to be ruled by another? Would it not make a difference to you? I am from **Northern Ireland ** - I don’t want a United Ireland.
My family wasn’t descended from planters, but they were Protestants [ I’m not, though]. Reading through the posts on this thread, a majority of posters seem to be pro-republican in their views, and I’m not going to even try to address every point as the only NI poster of protestant descent here. Not that I could change any of their fixed views, anyway.
You’re not the only one on the SDMB. Anyway, while there are no doubt some people in this thread who do have Republican views, I’m not quite sure how you can divine that “the majority” here have Republican views from the posts that have been made. They seem largely to deal with the historical situation that existed for the Nationalist community prior to the 1970s.
Personally speaking, though not from Northern Ireland, I am from Northern Irish planter stock. I am most certainly not a Republican. I feel that the goal of a united Ireland right now, while having an emotional cachet amongst Nationalists north and south of the border, would neglect the needs and wishes of the Unionist community, which has as much right as anyone on the island of Ireland to be there and be represented. I believe in equal rights and self-determination for all people in Northern Ireland, whatever that may be.
However, I have read the history books. Prior to the 1970s, Nationalists in Northern Ireland did have many less rights than Unionists, the political situation was gerrymandered, and the economic situation was corrupt. If you disagree with this, or any of the other history that’s been discussed here, maybe you should show us where it’s been misrepresented.
Personally I have changed my mind considerably, and am constantly adjusting my views the more I learn. Thus, I feel that a statement like
is a little unnecessary.
I don’t think anybody here would argue that Unionist views should be ignored. However, they are a minority, by any measure, other than the artificial boundary which was drawn to create Northern Ireland.
Artificial at the time it was drawn up, of course, like so much of the world. Despite this, completely de facto today - and furthermore the Republic of Ireland amdended its constitution to withdraw its claim to the 6 counties in 1999.
They withdrew the direct claim of territory - they didn’t withdraw the moral or political claims that probably lie ahead.
And no, many people in Northern Ireland will tell you emphatically that they are not ‘de facto’ British. In fact, the unique nationality status for people born in the six counties should give you some indication that there’s never been a complete success in stamping British ownership over the territory.
Not exactly. It is - or was - a bunch of people who went around soliciting financial backing for the IRA from asshole Americans who think of themselves as Irish because they drink Guinness on St Patrick’s Day.
If you want a bit of killer irony, NORAID did very good business in New York up until September 11th 2001 and I understand that that the loss of funding from the suddenly anti-terrorist New Yorkers was a major factor in finally bringing the IRA to the table. If this is true, Osama bin Laden made larger gains in the War Against Terror in a day than Bush has in three years.
Well I am a nationalist. I want a united Ireland. However I don’t think I’ve said anything in this thread that is incorrect. The question was about giving perspective on England V The IRA. I and others talked about why there was a level of anger and frustration in the Catholic community in NI and out of that new extremists came forward talking the same talk that had been talked for hundreds of years. The IRA has to be viewed from within their mindset to understand why people do such things. People who feel under attack do terrible things. Both sides are guilty to some degree of horror in this conflict.
I like the vast majority of people in the Rep. voted for the formal removal of the claim to the six counties and also gave support to the GFA. The majority of both communities in the north also voted for the GFA. It’s had hitches but now looks hopeful if the IRA can finally give up their arms in a way the DUP can accept.
The future of NI lies in the hands of the people in the six counties. If they ever vote to join the Rep. it will be a very hard time indeed. Putting aside all the emotional issues, the financial implications alone are great. It would cost the Rep. a fortune to do it. I still think that it should happen but only on the terms set down by the GFA
.
Yojimbo, are you in fact Irish? I ask because some of the posters with an Irish location are expats from other places.