English as the official language of the USA

Great Debates
1

Inspired by Otto’s rant in this thread I got to thinking about the wisdom (or not) of having an official language of the United States.

While it strikes against my SoCal laid back upbringing and my general libertarian thought processes at times I look at things like the insanity of Los Angeles County providing ballots in English, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Spanish, Tagalog, and Vietnamese as well as providing assistance for those outside those language on an 'as needed basis and I begin to suspect any attempt to deal fairly with all possible languages in a nation built on immigration (both legal and not) is really a Herculean task and one not really feasible across 300 million people.

Again, at the same time my objections and philosophical I see the county in which I live having a City Councilman and his wife, who are both English speaking but fluent in Spanish (having lived in Spain for many years in the past), having to double as ‘on call’ translators for the city and county courthouse when someone is picked up or tried who doesn’t speak English. We’re a county of about 65,000 people fewer than 2% of whom are non-white and non-protestant. It’s a monoculture that is having to cope with things outside their skillset.

I don’t really have an answer. And as said in the earlier pit thread the main proponents of ‘official language’ status for English tend to strike me as the hard hearted sort who want to push off others from the USA.

So there’s the debate: the internal struggle between a belief in liberty and self-determination against the societal advantage of requiring all participants to share one language.

2

What advantage ? A legal obligation to punish people who can’t manage to learn the language ? Contrary to what bigots like to claim, first generation immigrants seldom learn much of the language.

Create a group of people the government is forbidden to communicate with ? Are they supposed to let crimes go unsolved because some of the witnesses can’t speak English ?

Go back to the good old days when the children of non-English speaking parents were taken from them “for their own good” ? ( IIRC Australia did something like that as well )

Or another golden oldie, declare non-English speaking nations to be composed of morons because of the low scores of immigrants from there on English IQ tests ?

Sound goofy ? Well, that’s the kind of goofiness you’ll get from such impractical laws; perhaps not those specific bits of stupidity, but the same kind of thing. Assuming that such an impractical law is actually enforced, instead of all that happens is that a law is passed as a cave in to the bigots but not seriously enforced.

3

What would be the practical ramifications of English-only? Are you suggesting that ballots would be written only in English? Would we still provide assistance to those who are illiterate, but we would redact the practical voting privileges of those who do not speak English?

Are you suggesting that the courthouse would no longer provide interpreters for non-English speakers? What would this signify for defendants who do not speak English–are they just shit outta luck?

I’ve never seen any rationale for English-only that seems to me to advance our country’s best values.

Daniel

4

I don’t get the idea of non-English ballots. If you can’t read English, somebody shows you how to set it up in the machine and make a selection, which they can do without words, and you look for your guys and mark it accordingly. VOY-LA! Polyglottal voting!

5

The ability to read, write & speak English is required for naturalization. (I believe the rules are relaxed for the very old.) In my Houston precinct, ballots are available in English, Spanish & Vietnamese. The language of bond issues & (the unending) amendments to the Texas constitution is hardly “conversational English.” I don’t begrudge a bit of help for those who need it.

And I’ve seen those “wash hands before returning to work” signs in many languages–posted in ladies’ rooms across the city. I’m glad they are there. All that “printing” is not really expensive. The technology has advanced beyond the days of Benjamin Franklin.

In the history of American immigration, the first generation hasn’t always quickly become skilled in English. But each generation gets better. My cable system carries several channels for the “Latino” audience. Programming for the youngest generation is in English.

But Houston is a big, prosperous, diverse city. Perhaps your little community ought to set up border checkpoints to keep out those who don’t speak English–along with the non-whites & non-Protestants. (You did mention these “minorities.”)

Or perhaps you could expand your skillset. You might gain some less boring restaurants!

6

What would change? CA already has English as the official language, and yet that “insanity” still exists here.

I think it would be a meaningless gesture, and if you did try to put some real teeth in it, the negative consequences would outway the good. There’s nothing wrong with the government trying to accommodate non-English speaking people as long we simultaneously create insentives for those same people to learn English.

7

You only need an official language to recognise the status of a minority language (such as French in Canada or Maori in New Zealand), or to put down minority languages by just having one language (as Franco’s Spain did with Castillian, to put down Basque, Catalan, etc.)

In the US, having English as the one official language would be denigrating minority languages: not just Spanish, but also the many Native American languages and the many immigrant languages.

8

Well it seems from here you’ve learned—a little. You rightly got slapped about the ears for accussing Otto of racism in that thread, then tried to bullshit your way out of it. Now, although you didn’t actually use the term here, you level the same accusation. The OP was simply giving us a picture of the situation. Why don’t you give it a fuckiing rest? Sheeze!

9

I’m not sure that passing a law enforcing a one-language policy would actually be an advantage. I haven’t seen enough evidence that providing translators or translated public documents would cause any significant strain on the government or economy, and I think exposure to more than a single language would probably do most people a lot of good.

10

So Canada is denigrating First Nations tongues by having English and French as the only two official languages?

11

Nope, Otto wasn’t really being racist. He was just using the most outlandish example he could.

This OP specifically stated:

Yes, I get the picture of the situation. Let’s hope that tight little monoculture learns to cope.

12

Yup – probably it is. It would seem that the First Nations haven’t had the political clout of the Quebecois. There would also be the problem of the multiplicity of First Nations languages: New Zealand doesn’t have that problem, since there’s only one indigenous language, but it would be a problem in Australia and in the US,

13

Correct. **Otto **was not being racist, yet you accused him of such. I’m glad you now see the error of your accusation.

I’m not sure if you see your error in your less direct accusation in this thread and you will, as I think someone else suggested, readjust your hair trigger regarding charges of racism.

14

Cite, and define “much”.

15

I imagine that not providing ballots readable by citizens would be unconstitutional even if English was made the official language. And really, it’s not that hard to get ballots written up in any language spoken in a particular voting district. Hell, in most places you could probably get English speaking members of whatever community your dealing with to translate on voting day for free.

I suppose in one or two places in the country there might be a citizen who speaks something really obscure, has no family to translate and no local community to help, and yet still wants to vote, but I’m fairly confident thats rare enough to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Most immigrants live in sizable communities, and speak one of three or four languages (Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc.)

The national language is purely symbolic. No ones going to learn English just because its the official language, I’m sure that everyone knows that thats what most people speak here even if its not official. Personally, I like that we don’t have one, since I think it symoblizes the US’s heritage as a melting pot (granted a sometimes unwilling melting pot) and libertarian values (what language do you speak if your a citizen of the US? what ever damn language you want).

16

Bridget Burke and magellan01, knock off the personal observations regarding other posters. It does nothing to promote the discussion.

[ /Moderating ]

17

Here’s the thing. What would it MEAN to declare english the Official Language?

Would it mean that if you can’t speak english you aren’t allowed in the country? Would it outlaw the speaking of other languages in this country? Would it outlaw the printing of books, magazines, newspapers and pamphlets in other languages? Would it forbid the use of public funds to pay for translators? Would it forbid the use of public funds to publish or purchase materials in languages other than english? Would it outlaw radio and TV broadcasts other than in english?

Or would it merely require english proficiency as a prerequisite for citizenship? We already do that. Would it require that official documents be printed in english? Name one example of an official document available in some other language that is not available in english. Would it mean that we teach english in public schools? We already do that. Encourage immigrants to learn english? We already do that.

What exactly do you hope to accomplish by making english the official language? What things that we do today would now be against the law if english were the official language? What things that we aren’t doing today that we would be required to do if english were the official language?

If the only consequence of making english the official language was an official endorsement of english what exactly would be the point? It would have the same effect as making April 23rd national cheddar cheese day.

If the idea is to deport illegal aliens, well, making english the official language sure as hell won’t do that. If you want to deport illegal aliens you need to do something else–build a fence, hire more INS agents, and so forth.

But making english the official language isn’t going to protect you from the shock of going to a neighborhood grocery store and finding that the cashiers speak spanish, and they sell more tortillas than bread, and signs are in spanish, and spanish language newspapers are for sale, and a spanish language radio station is playing songs popular in Mexico. You’re not going to make spanish illegal are you? If what you really want is to deport the Mexicans back to Mexico how does making english the official language help you?

18

Using broad-brush claims that entire undefined groups are “bigots” simply because you disagree with them on a particular issue is silly and makes your argument look weak.

I am not sure what any particular debater wishes to call “much.”

Here are some figures from the U. S. Census Bureau (page 4) (.pdf):

From 1990 to 2000, the number of persons who spoke a language other than English in the home rose from 31,844,979 to 46,951,595 of whom 25,631,188 spoke English very well, 10,333,556 spoke English well, 7,620,719 spoke English not well, and only 3,366,132 spoke no English. This is consistent with the number between 1980 and 1990, so the trend appears stable. It should also be noted that persons who were classed as speaking English “not well” included a number of people who are capable of making themselves understood in a business situation, but are simply not fluent.

Generally, the first generation of immigrants has a lot of difficulty speaking English, but each successive generation speaks it.

Regarding the separate issue raised regarding voting: The Voting Rights Act requires that a political entity provide language assistance only if at least 5% of the eligible voters are both non-English speakers and are “limited-English proficient” (or if those people reach a population of 10,000 within that political entity even if it is not 5%).

No one can wander into Podunk, IA, speaking only Gheg, and demand that they be given a ballot in Gheg. (If they did not speak English, no one whould know what they were demanding anyway :stuck_out_tongue: .)

19

Government documents would be published in English and only English. By law, official government proceedings would be conducted in English only.

I know many like to deride and pooh-pooh the idea of having English as the Official language as that it would merely by a symbolic gesture. While it would be largely a symbolic gesture, that is not a bad thing. Symbols can be powerful things. IMO, it declares a common denominator for all. That is in the interest of the country and all who wish to come take advantage of what it has to offer. Regardless of which of the world’s 19? nations they come from and the myriad languages they speak.

Now, if some private party wants to print voter guides and driving instruction booklets in a thousand different languages, nothing sholud stop them. But the test should be in English. And no one that I’ve heard has advocated outlawing the printing of signs in non-english for retail stores and other private entities. This is about what the government should do.

20

I was pointing out that her implications of racism in the OP were ill-founded. You should view that as improving the discussion. Sorry that you don’t.