What do you all think about English in our classrooms? Should teachers have to earn an additional degree in a foreign language in order to teach, say, high school English? Or should those students seek ESL tutoring either through the school system or outside it?
I came across this situation while living in NM. Several school systems were insisting that their English teachers also be degreed in Spanish in order to teach their students English…not ESL, but regular, mainstream English. While I found it odd, I didn’t question it then. I just realize that it is hard enough to pay for a B.S. in a dual major like English Education, never mind having to pay for more time in school to receive a minor in Spanish. I paid for college “on my own” though loans and grants and will still be in debt for 20 years in order to graduate with a 3.5 GPA. Sadly, this doesn’t seem to be enough for many schools now.
As a former English teacher, I think requiring language teachers to take Spanish is an excellent idea. Learning a new language is a great way to see which teaching strategies
are successful in a real-life learning environment, it can give teachers ideas on how to make the learning experience more enjoyable, and it also helps teachers empathize with their students’ struggles to learn English. In addition, Spanish is a beautiful language and is pretty darned essential in the Southwest.
Now the OP only addressed requiring a second language for teaching regular English classes, but I’m going to bust on bilingual teaching anyway.
I am absolutely against bilingual education for several reasons. For one, immersion in the second language from day one is the only way to help students really take ownership of the subject. If a teacher is translating English to Spansish, the kids will always think in Spanish first and will never become fluent English speakers. Immersion, on the other hand, enhances listening comprehension and fluency through constant repetition. I’ve taught K-12 and adults using full immersion even for beginning students.
Sounds like NM schools are trying to serve the needs of their students.
It’s very valuable for people who teach a language (any language) to learn a new language themselves. It puts you in the shoes of your students, it helps you understand things about your own language you never noticed before.
Second, I am absolutely against bilingual ed, for the same reasons. Immersion works. We’re so afraid to let kids try something and fail at it. Bilingual education tells Spanish-speaking students that we don’t think they are capable of ever functioning in English - we never encourage them to try to sink or swim. I’ve experienced bilingual ed when I studied in Czech Republic in college. I had all my “real” classes (history, literature, economics) in English plus a special Czech language class twice a day. If I had been immersed would I have flunked my first semester? Probably. But I’d be fluent in Czech, which I am far from being now, and I would have done fine the next semester. I lived all the bad stereotypes of bilingual ed - had a hard time making friends outside my language group, I had a hard time getting beyond a certain survival competency in Czech. The program’s message was “this language is so hard you’ll never learn it well enough to function in a university setting, so we’ll make it so you don’t even have to try.”
I think the coolest possible program for NM schools would to teach ALL the kids in Spanish half the day and in English the other half of the day. All the kids learn to function in both languages, and it will integrate the students better.
Czech proverb: Learn a new language, get a new soul.
Great subject guys, I look forward to reading more. As for me, I have to agree with the OP, and it’s subsequent poster in regards to bi-lingual instruction.
(I may just be playing devil’s advocate here, as I’ve not really decided how I feel about it)
Goboy:
07-11-2000 10:43 AM
“Learning a new language is a great way to see which teaching strategies
are successful in a real-life learning environment.”
I thought that was what student teaching was for.
“…It also helps teachers empathize with their students’ struggles to learn English.”
Do you not think that you had to empathize enough with all of the other day-to-day struggles these students had to deal with? (Sex, drugs, violence???)
“Spanish is a beautiful language and is pretty darned essential in the Southwest.”
True, but I was under the impression that English should be taught in an English classroom. While immersion works, I also think that for the teachers to be able to take Spanish as a minor (which this school system was requiring) that it ought to be something they can do and be reimbursed. I, like Goboy, have a degree in English Ed. That took 4.5 years of my own money – ironically, I am not even using the degree now because I disagree with how the state of MA runs its school systems…. (But that’s another line…) Do you think it’s justified to have to pay (or sink deeper into debt) because of a student inability/school system’s lack of desire to fund further teacher education? (I hope that last bit made sense. . . it’s been a long day.) J
Yes, but nothing beats being on the receiving end of a language lesson to see how effective teaching strategies are from a learner’s perspective.
I’m only talking about the language learning experience.
I think making you take Spanish as a minor is extreme, but I do think that a prospective English teacher should study a foreign language.
If it were up to me, I’d set up a system where a student teacher’s loans would be forgiven in exchange for teaching for a set period in a school in a poverty-stricken area, like the Pine Ridge rez in South Dakota, or Anacostia in DC.
As a sidenote, I think the way teachers are trained blows. Can the blue sky theorizing and emphasize real world teaching, including classes on classroom management and the application of discipline and incentives.
Yes, but nothing beats being on the receiving end of a language lesson to see how effective teaching strategies are from a learner’s perspective.
I’m only talking about the language learning experience.
I think making you take Spanish as a minor is extreme, but I do think that a prospective English teacher should study a foreign language.
If it were up to me, I’d set up a system where a student teacher’s loans would be forgiven in exchange for teaching for a set period in a school in a poverty-stricken area, like the Pine Ridge rez in South Dakota, or Anacostia in DC.
As a sidenote, I think the way teachers are trained blows. Can the blue sky theorizing and emphasize real world teaching, including classes on classroom management and the application of discipline and incentives. That topic requires its own thread.
In the interests of full disclosure, I have dual degrees in history and English with a TESL certification, but I did not study English ed.
Well, from one who ironically happens to be a student working on an English major and a Spanish minor, I agree with goboy. Not only is it helpful to be on the “receiving” end of learning a language, but learning Spanish has also been extremely useful to me in understanding English better. Since here in the U.S. English is the first language for most people, it is learned through growing up around the language instead of learning points of grammar. Until I took Spanish, I didn’t have a clue about the difference between a direct pronoun and an indirect pronoun. You just use them without thinking through such things, you know? Taking another language makes you look at your own language in a different way. You become more critical of what makes it difficult to learn and more apt to know how to deal with such troubles. That’s my experience in this area, anyway.
Ann, you wanna clue in the rest of us Spanish-illiterates on this one?
I’m familiar with the difference between a direct and an indirect object (“Give me [indirect object] the book [direct object]”), and with the difference between a nominative and an accusative pronoun (“She [nominative] likes him [accusative]”), but I never heard of direct and indirect pronouns.
Back to the topic, I completely agree with what you and goboy and others have been saying about the importance of learning another language in order to teach English better, and the importance of Spanish for all teachers in many of our school systems here in the US. I also sympathize with the OP’s complaint about the extra burden on teachers, though. It seems that what has happened is that the real-life desiderata for English teachers have changed but the teacher-training system hasn’t caught up with them; why wasn’t learning Spanish an integral part of hgreene’s English Ed degree? Until that happens, the burden is going to be on the candidates for teaching jobs to make sure they meet the new requirements.
(By the way, H, just curious: what didn’t you like about the MA school systems? I thought that MA schools were supposed to be pretty good, in terms of national ranking at least.)
On indirect pronouns in Spanish. Think direct and indirect objects. “I hit him” for example, uses "him as a direct object. “I baked him a cake” uses “him” as an indirect object. In spanish, there is a difference in the pronoun: “le” is indirect, “lo” is direct, for example.
**
I was an English major, Spanish minor (which is why I work in insurance ). I took a year of ESL studies and was so disallusioned by what we were taught that I dropped out and went back to insurance. Everything was very rarified and esoteric. We took classes on classic greek Rhetoric, studied ethnographic studies with tests groups of 3-10 subjects and were taught over and over again that white men fall just short of enslaving every non-english speaker in the US. There were no courses about classroom management, about how to make a lesson plan, or about how to actually :::GASP::: teach.
I will side with goboy wholeheartedy on the issue of learning another language. It really helps you understand the difficulty others have when learning english. And I also agree that immersion is the only way. I learn more in a week in Costa Rica than I did in a semester of advanced Spanish 301.
I think what I dislike about the MA educational system is that the curriculum almost has to be formed to fit the MCAS exam. MA schools may be good, but the educators are not well paid, and they are under constant scrutiny. When I studied for the Eng. Ed. Degree in NH, I realized I would have to test to certify in MA. However, I didn’t realize that they exam would include questions regarding literature from Ireland and other cultures. I have studied a great deal of cultural literature, but on my own. (and, sadly, none of them Irish) The dependence on standardized testing in the state of MA will be nothing but a thorn in the side of its educators. But, hey, that’s just my opinion….
I chose not to take Spanish in college, as I was studying in NH (large French community in my home area) and had taken four years of French. This study was supplemented by having several French-Canadian relatives who would speak the language to one another. They, however, always spoke English in public. Though in hindsight, I wish I had taken the Spanish. I just am not sure it should be required of English teachers to teach in (which I have only heard of once) and/or be fluent in a second language such as Spanish. (Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s wise to do and if you can afford to extend your college experience, do it.) I just remember finding the four years very difficult to pay for. (though I feel goboy has an excellent idea with the exchange teaching program. It’s a shame that it isn’t put into practice. Not only would those areas have good, teachers, but those teachers would be empathetic to the needs of the poor. (I know I am.) You find areas like that nation-wide, too. It’s sad. I wonder how one would go about bringing that idea to light?
I think what I dislike about the MA educational system is that the curriculum almost has to be formed to fit the MCAS exam. MA schools may be good, but the educators are not well paid, and they are under constant scrutiny. When I studied for the Eng. Ed. Degree in NH, I realized I would have to test to certify in MA. However, I didn’t realize that they exam would include questions regarding literature from Ireland and other cultures. I have studied a great deal of cultural literature, but on my own. (and, sadly, none of them Irish) The dependence on standardized testing in the state of MA will be nothing but a thorn in the side of its educators. But, hey, that’s just my opinion….
I chose not to take Spanish in college, as I was studying in NH (large French community in my home area) and had taken four years of French. This study was supplemented by having several French-Canadian relatives who would speak the language to one another. They, however, always spoke English in public. Though in hindsight, I wish I had taken the Spanish. I just am not sure it should be required of English teachers to teach in (which I have only heard of once) and/or be fluent in a second language such as Spanish. (Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s wise to do and if you can afford to extend your college experience, do it.) I just remember finding the four years very difficult to pay for. (though I feel goboy has an excellent idea with the exchange teaching program. It’s a shame that it isn’t put into practice. Not only would those areas have good, teachers, but those teachers would be empathetic to the needs of the poor. (I know I am.) You find areas like that nation-wide, too. It’s sad. I wonder how one would go about bringing that idea to light?
Mr. Z said,
“I took a year of ESL studies and was so disallusioned by what we were taught that I dropped out and went back to insurance. Everything was very rarified and esoteric. We took classes on classic greek Rhetoric, studied ethnographic studies with tests groups of 3-10 subjects and were taught over and over again that white men fall just short of enslaving every non-english speaker in the US. There were no courses about classroom management, about how to make a lesson plan, or about how to actually :::GASP::: teach.”
While that is sad (and I am so sorry you had to hear that sort of thing because it is not our fault that our ancestors were foolish), I am pleased to know that my college ran the lesson plan, classroom management, educational psychology, special needs planning thing into our heads… It was a double major in the truest sense of the word. (sigh, almost makes me miss college)
HGREENE, check out Teach For America. It sets you up with teaching jobs in underserved areas, and I believe they help you with your loans. http://www.teachforamercia.org
Their affiliation with Americorps (which hopefully will still exist after November 2000) means that you can earn about $9000 toward your student loans over 2 years plus you earn a normal 1st-year teacher’s salary (unlike regular Americorps volunteers who earn nothing).
As for learning Spanish, might be hard to do depending on where you are in Vermont, but there are plenty of communities in Massachusetts with large numbers of Spanish speakers. You don’t necessarily have to take on a whole new major to learn a language. Pick up “Teach Yourself Spanish” in any Waldenbooks for about $20. It’s tapes & a dictionary. Put up fliers - you’ll teach English in exchange for conversational Spanish lessons. Listen to Spanish music. Watch soap operas on Univision. Get one of the books of Latin American folk tales that has English on one side of the page and Spanish on the other. Once you’ve got an ear for the language, take a class or 2 - you’ll be able to jump into a more advanced level if you’ve done prep work on your own, and you’ll be less bored by basic grammar instruction.
There are tons of programs that can send you to Costa Rica or Guatemala for a summer. Immersion works!
Whatever you decide, you are doing a great thing by becoming a teacher. Schools need you. I wish I had the dedication.
You’re sweet. I wish I had heard about the programs earlier. I’ve actually been out of college since ’96 and am a recent divorcee. As such, I had to work a “real” (for lack of any other way of putting it) job so that I could pay bills and student loan payments. Sadly, the fact of Americorps, as you mentioned, is that they don’t pay. Unfortunately, I was very sick for a long time and now am on medications – which cost money. Rent also costs money. I presently live in MA and the large Spanish speaking population was what made me think of the OP. I wish I were dedicated or far enough ahead in other bills to be able to do something like that.
Funny you mentioned the Spanish channel. I often watch it – in spite of only understanding a handful of words.
I think that the Americorps program might be great for those college students who don’t have any debt outside of student loans.
). I took a year of ESL studies and was so disallusioned by what we were taught that I dropped out and went back to insurance. Everything was very rarified and esoteric. We took classes on classic greek Rhetoric, studied ethnographic studies with tests groups of 3-10 subjects and were taught over and over again that white men fall just short of enslaving every non-english speaker in the US. There were no courses about classroom management, about how to make a lesson plan, or about how to actually :::GASP::: teach.