Ultress, I dare say you’re more qualified to be POTUS than the Shrub, if only because you realize that you don’t know everything.
Your post contained some of the most brilliant political analysis I have ever read. [image]http://www.geocities.com/disconnecthedots/notworthy.txt[/image]
Oops. Forgot image code is off. It was supposed to be a bowing emoticon.
Perhaps you need to practice your reading comprehension. I said never, if ever.**
I think you’re not much of a speller. Also show me where it takes a generation for ethnic conflict to smooth over. I’ve never seen a stat that says that. Let’s take a look at Israel: well over a millennia and things are still going horribly in that regard. I think you’re not much of a student of history.**
Ahem. Cite? And I don’t want any half-baked conspiracy theory web sight either. Legit, mainstream news source. And spare me some bullshit about how mainstream news sources would be in on it; they brought down a president before and they wouldn’t hesitate to do it again.**
Huh? Where pre 9-11 did the U.S. talk about going into Afghanistan and instituting a regime change? I’m sure the U.S. wouldn’t have minded if a regime change happened on it’s own, especially if it was favorable towards the U.S., but that doesn’t mean we were arbitrarily planning on going in there and setting up shop.**
I’m taking a short view of your brainpower.**
What the fuck are you talking about? First off I don’t watch TV (it rots your brain kids), and secondly what the fuck are you talking about? I’m assuming that you’re implying that the U.S. allowed 9-11, invaded Afghanistan, installed a governement favorable towards the U.S. and all this so a millennia down the road they can build an oil pipeline. That’s a tall order where any little thing goes wrong and the whole deal blows up in their face. You’ve derided CNN twice now as being biased, but it seems to me that your sources are biased and don’t have a firm grip on reality. And neither do you.
We have contingency plans to invade lots of places. Thousands of people work in the Pentagon, they constantly dream up hypotheticals and plans that will never be implemented unless something strange happens. But, there is one more thing…
TERRORIST TRAINING CAMPS! Did you forget those? They churned out tens of thousands of walking potential 9/11s for years. Hmmm, where were they? The Taliban told the U.S. to stick it. Notice, Sudan cooperated, no invasion.
Clinton says now that he had some kind of military plan for dealing with al Qaeda. Hard to do that without going to where they train their terrorists.
We make no distinction between terrorists and those who knowingly harbor or provide aid to them.
White House ‘passed British secrets to IRA’
Many in the UK still remember the TV coverage of The President of the United States receiving Terrorists in the White House! How nice it was for them – and how sickening for so many around the world. It seems that if you terrorise enough you get to meet the president – or maybe it’s cos places like Northern Ireland were not seen as Strategically Important – But the Irish vote was! Political Correctness American Style!
Oh this is a great one.
So In the United Kingdom there are convicted Terrorists in Parliament and in the Northern Ireland Executive - the Government of The United Kingdom.
These Guys are being allowed to do this because AMERICA THE USA brokered a deal that supported Terrorists being reformed – and Now The SHRUB and his merry men are trying to claim that they are going to be Robin Hood to the rest of the World. The US Government – men in Tights!
Well America supported the IRA and refused to ban then as a Terrorist Organisation operating in the USA – allowing them to gather money and support on American Soil for many years. Many people in the UK remember that and the bombs that American money funded on the Streets of London – Manchester – Birmingham – Warrington as well as all the terror alerts and security that we were forced to take for granted!
So this is great – If America will not tolerate Giving Aide and Comfort to Terrorists that’s the end of America and it vanishes in a pouf of it’s own Ideological Logic! How much safer the world will be.
Bye Bye We’ll Miss You ……………… NOT!
When will the American people wake up to the Gross Double Standards and Hypocritical Fraud — and even the poor use of smoke and mirrors by the Government of the USA. It seems that Hollywood has been getting tax breaks for years to get folks believing the plot lines in the Movies. Dubya is not Like Luke Skywalker or Obe One – and black hawk down was for real – not just a screen play! Terrorist have been given aide and comfort by the USA and people are not willing to be subjugated by the USA’s Double standards.
The National Security Strategy of the United States of America- This piece of foolishness just made the world a hell of a lot more dangerous for the Average American – and also for the rest of the planet too!
As For the repeated references that America’s way is the best and only way – the Arrogance is staggering. I hope that as many people as possible question this document and it’s intent. It’s scary and grossly self serving! It’s declaring war on the world – and it seems that the USA has no allies to fall back on!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asylum *
quote:
**Originally posted by bloomingidiot **
Who said the pipe line was planned for next week – perhaps you need to start looking at the bigger picture and bigger time scales.
So Nice to See that the American standard of debate is at the same consistent level…
ad hominem is abuse… not an argument!
I’m in no way saying we went to Afghanistan to clear the way for a pipeline, but there has been talk of a
I’m in no way saying we went to Afghanistan to clear the way for a pipeline, but there has been talk of a pipeline, there were talks with the Taliban, and there continue to be negotiations.
from Unocal http://www.unocal.com/uclnews/98news/centgas.htm
This should be of interest as well:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2016340.stm
No matter how you slice it, folks, there are oil interests in the area.
Further proof of the luck of the Irish. There is no oil in Ireland.
This is another one that makes me smile; Dick Cheney voting against the release of Nelson Mandela because he was a ‘convicted’ ‘terrorist’ 
“Cheney’s shameful record continued in foreign-policy voting (the area of ‘expertise’ on which Bush will supposedly draw). He voted (not just once but ten times) against economic sanctions on apartheid-era South Africa. And he was one of only two US Congress members who voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela from prison.”
Beautiful ! …a ‘terrorist’ against apartheid…who knew ?
Do some of you people really think this corporate / industrial administration cares about anything other than themselves and their kind…IMH late night O, you are either deluding yourselves or are just plain and simple fucking nuts.
Oh fer cripes sake–why the hell is everyone (especially bloom) acting shocked and appalled that the US is defending its strategic interests? Is this not what nations do? Why hold the US up to some unrealistic standard of international morality when every nation looks to its own interests! I mean come on people. On to some other points:
We have very little strategic interest in N. Ireland (sorry folks, but its true–no slight intended) except in that it tends to distract one of our key international allies. So we help broker a peace agreement between the parties 1) because it’s the right thing to do unless you like the idea of people blowing each other to bits over some stupid shit that happened centuries ago (and in the name of a supposedly benevolent divine entity) and 2) because if the Brits don’t have to worry about fighting the IRA 24-7, maybe they’ll owe us one and help us safeguard some of our strategic interests down the line somewhere.
RE: oil pipelines etc. Sure, I’ll grant you that the US would like nothing better than a stable regime in Afghanistan so we can build a whooping-big pipeline to funnel gas right into our SUV’s. See, the way we look at it everyone wins: the Afghani’s get a stable, democratic government and a chance to get ahead in the world (not to mention whatever money they can generate from the pipeline itself) and we get cheap oil. This is the perfect foreign policy in America’s view (well, at least my imperfect interpretation of it): we can be right AND rich! Now unless you’re going to try to argue that the Afghani’s were better off under the Taliban, I really can’t see what the problem is here. There WERE terrorist camps in Afghanistan and 9/11 made it clear to the US that we can’t keep ignoring the political entities who provide shelter, infrastructure and/or material support to these groups. I’m thinking our motivations in attacking al Qaeda and the militant Islamic groups associated with them should be pretty clear.
Now I’m most assuredly NOT saying I agree with Bush’s policies 100%. I have strong reservations about some of the civil liberties he’s suspending and I don’t think taking on Iraq alone would be setting a good precident. He does make a good point, however, when he says that the UN must enforce its resolutions or they are essentially powerless (anyone remembering Ethiopa and the League of Nations?). He hasn’t made a good case IMO for attacking Iraq but hopefully he will do so before unilaterally doing so <crosses fingers and toes>. In the meantime I’m not going to wring my hands and whine and moan over the likes of someone like Saddam Hussein. The world would be better off without the likes of that idiot running the lives of 23 million Iraqis. And if we could somehow just take out him and his immediate advisors, I’m guessing everyone (the US, our Arab allies, the EU, and especially the Iraqi people) would be immensely relieved.
Come on people, I know this is the Pit and all but that’s not a license to start acting like a damn fool.
well, my guess, Wabbit would be that the WOT [sup]tm[/sup] was advertised as being “war on Terrorism” world wide, ‘all terrorists’ , not just ‘those terrorists who attacked the US’, and happen to be hiding in regions where we have a whole lotta other interests.
Al Q also had substantial toeholds in certain African nations as well as Indonesia, seems to me, yet, where are our sites levied presently? Iraq. As a matter of fact, we’ve suffered from terrorist actions in INdonesia (remember the clergy who were kidnapped and killed?), and both the embassy bombings and the Cole weren’t anywhere near IRaq
As some sort of poo-bah in the ANC, Mandela shares responsibility for the terrorist acts performed by it. And remember, two wrongs do not make a right.
And out of curiosity, when did Cheney vote against the release of Mandela? Mandela was never imprisoned in the US, and even if he was, that sort of thing is generally left to the Judicial branch…
Nelson Mandela a terrorist. Right.
Mr. Rodgers as Hannibal Lecter
“Welcome to my neighborhood. Can I have your liver?”
As the Dalai Lama slammed another round into his grenade launcher, he chuckled "Time to get some!" while Bishop Tutu grinned and sharpened his machete.
WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!
http://www.entoil.com/worldwide/ireland/corrib/EOIreland.asp
It may not be much but there Is Oil In Ireland! 
Mind you it’s still more economic to get it from other places Via Afghanistan!
CentGas Consortium were not the only ones interested in a Trans Afghan pipeline. There were/are others who have not gone public - and still others who have the contracts to produce and even refine the crude before it goes in the pipe. Lower risk but still VERY BIG BUCKS!
When you consider the money to be made just getting the black gold out of the ground - dehydrated - generally cleaned up and ready for shipment - there are a lot of players who want a piece of the action when it comes to that pot of honey - and many of them have their favourite puppets to play with to get their own way!
The strategic oil and gas reserves of Central Southern Former USSR have been under consideration and exploitation for many years….
And have a look at Kazakhstan in General Too!!!
And China has it’s oil in many places!
And it is quite interesting how this Area has two possible distribution routes – one to China and the other shorter one to Pakistan and by ship to the rest of the world!
Just a conspiracy theory??? Funny that – the guys I used to work for didn’t think much of conspiracies – just Oil and Money and they were all over the area 10 years ago with the blessing of many international governments including or even especially the USA.
So nice to know that The USA will now NOT SUPPORT TERRORISTS…. Pity they were so willing to allow terrorists to gather money OPENLY on American Soil… and then have the bombs on the streets of London.
More people have died in IRA bombs and bullets paid for by American Dollars than dies in 9/11 - just make sure you know that one! It may have taken longer - and even more dollars than plane tickets and box cutters - but more lives went slowly over many years that were lost on 9/11!
Britain should now back the USA because of a peace dividend??? …… Fucking selfish as ever.
Maybe the UK should start looking strategically and being more interested in European matters than American ones…… and we should stand against punitive tariffs imposed by America in breach of international trade treaties - That’s in our interest and not America’s after all …… perhaps we should make our support of the USA conditional upon them COMPLYING with international Trade agreements and we should stick two fingers up when America refuses to open up her markets whilst screaming at Europe that we have you open ours to Unfairly Subsidised American Steal - and Bananas!
You want to have your cake and to eat it!!!
America has been the largest supporter of Terrorism in history… and it wonders why folks would question it’s self interest now???
Wake up and smell that Columbian Coffee - and wasn’t it the Reagan Administration that was playing Iran / Contra and money laundering - giving money to the drug barons to put missiles in the hands of the Taliban and even Osama???
Hey, bloomingpouf!
There is no oil in Oklahoma!
Ladies and gentlemen, please excuse the interruption while the requisite testosterone poisioned smart ass remark is made:
(ahem.)
Remind us not to put your sorry ass out of World War II.
Thank you.
Carry on.
Remind me to send a letter of thanks to Japan!