Do you enjoy good wholesome condemnation of USA foreign policy every now and again, I do and I’m not the only one, why is that I wonder?
Are the current Middle East difficulties a result of dire policy decisions taken by the US?
What I would enjoy is a safer, happier world brought about by improved and less self-seeking US foreign policy.
Endless criticism and condemnation is a negative thing. It’s not helping the Middle East situation, and nor do policy makers appear to heed it anyway.
I would rather look forward, hoping that policy makers get a conscience, and soon.
Pssst… I reckon there’s a bit more to Middle East tensions than US foreign policy.
“Are the current Middle East difficulties a result of dire policy decisions taken by the US?”
I’ve been wondering about that since I saw the polls. You mean if we did something different they wouldn’t be shooting at each other now?
Of course. Only fools and crazies think that religion or cultural difficulties have anything to do with it. Because the US is the center of the universe, and everything the US does has massive, shattering effects everywhere else on Earth.
:rolleyes:
Not to mention being invariably wrong.
Cheney’s statement on Fox (now THERE’S a combination!) in 01/01 that the US ‘understood’ Israel’s ‘need’ to murder selected Palestians (no, find it yourself) probably did nothing.
how about: did the Israeli’s view the W’s administration’s dis-engagement in the area as approval to do anything it wanted.
‘nothing to help’
a ‘one post per minute’ limit is now in effect?
The 60 second rule has always been in effect. Cuts down on trolls ‘n’ such.
No.
It’s the fault of the idiots that are blowing each other up.
PS- Bite me, choad.
Well, if I remember correctly, the Bible and the Koran traces it back to the sons of Abraham. No USA around at that time.
…or you can move on a couple of millenia and look at the colonial fuckery that went on in that area in the 19[sup]th[/sup] and first half of the 20[sup]th[/sup] centuries, much of it pitting one faction against another. The USA didn’t have any colonies there, if I recall correctly.
…or you can look at the factions in the Palestinian and the Jewish people’s sides which do all they can to fan the flames. Now, as I understand it, most Jews and Palestinians could give a shit about many of the “fighting points,” they would just like to live in peace. As I listened to Shrub’s speech today, I was hearing him say things about West Bank Settlements being Bad Things[sup]tm[/sup] and Yassir Arafat being an irresponsible jerk. Sorry, no quote, but that was the gist of it to my ears. Basically, he was suggesting that both sides knock the shit off. Sorry, I don’t see that as the USA “causing” the conflict. Nor do I see the USA’s past support of Israel as a “cause.” We have, in the past, let them know that we don’t approve of many of their actions regarding the Palestinians, and they have pulled back, since we’re practically the only ally they have in the world, and I guess they’d rather not go without allies if they can help it.
…Oh, yeah, it was the USA, with Jimmy Carter as President, who brokered the Camp David Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt. This was the first recognition of Israel’s right to exist by any Arab nation.
…It was the USA, under Curious George, that put together the coalition that drove Iraq out of Kuwait.
…It was the USA, under Curious George again, that persuaded Israel not to retaliate against Iraq for scud missile attacks. If Israel had retaliated, the Arab members of the coalition (Egypt excluded) might very well have stopped aggression against Iraq and gone after their “common enemy,” Israel.
Leamas, I’d be the last American to say that US foreign policy is always peachy keen (Latin America for most of the 19[sup]th[/sup] and 20[sup]th[/sup] centuries, anyone?), but damn, I get so fucking sick of hearing people blaming the world’s problems on the US! How’s about your nation (Ireland, right?) go in and try to broker a peace between centuries-old enemies, while every peaceful advance is screwed up by some bigoted fuckery from one side or the other? Until then, bite me.
It’s surprising to discover how much affect Britain’s past “policy decisions” have on the world today. Afghanistan was under their control in the 19th century and they could have helped modernise and secularise it but chose not to. They also controlled India and yet they botched it’s partition into a Hindu and a Moslem state (Pakistan). There are long chains of cause and effect behind a lot of the world’s problems.
Got to hijack, for the honour of the Mother Country!
It wasn’t a case of “chose not to”. The region was uncontrollable to the extent that the Brits had to pull out - and were massacred in the process.
When granting independence to India, the Brits could have just pulled out and hoped that the two factions would just get along and sing happy songs, but that wasn’t really an option. Partition was just the lesser of several evils.
Anyway, back to blaming the US for everything…
Part of the problem is that the US will get criticism from certain (albeit small) parties no matter what they do. If we perform any action outside our borders, we’re “interfering” or “policing the world”. If we let foreign countries duke it out, we’re cruel “isolationist” monsters. Now, this is hardly to suggest that “What’s good for the US is good for the World” (hey, we’ve got a weird culture), but yeesh, I just wish the US-bashers would decide exactly what we are - either interfering policemen or isolationists - and stop being so wishy-washy on the subject.
American intervention so often seems to have a two-tiered or multi-faceted aspect to it. The ordinary, everyday people of the world who watch 10 minutes of news a day see starving Somalian children and want them fed. They see the Taliban and the Serbs torturing people and want it stopped. The people of Tiawan say they are not a part of China and everyday people everywhere support them etc etc. The U.S. soldiers who are sent into situations like that have fine motives and good hearts - they’re everyday people. But somehow there’s always a political analyst who’ll pop up and say “yes, but there’s oil near Afghanistan. When President Bush was governor of Texas he had the Taliban for over for afternoon tea to discuss it!” Or, “there was oil in Kuwait, there’s no oil in Tibet. Poor Tibet”. And people may be convinced the war on drugs is a good thing and U.S. soldiers may believe that too. They may have relatives whose lives have been ruined by crack and cocaine. And the analysts will say: yes, but the Colombian drug runners are socialists. Americans hate socialists. That’s why there’s soldiers in the forests of South America and for no other reason. So, what do you say to that?
Thank you for your learned and cogent contribution to the ongoing discussion.
You gotta love it when European leaders keep telling the US to “do something”. Like the US is God or something. Europe is Israel’s #1 trading partner, ahead of the USA. How about Europe do something? Or at least shut the fuck up?
Like in Yugoslavia, they do nothing, they criticise the US for not doing something and then when the US does something, they criticise it for playing world cop. You just can’t win. Not when you’re surrounded by idiots.
Hmm…poster hasn’t been back to expound on the subject. Subject introduced is highly inflammatory and provoking. The OP isn’t really even Pit-worthy; it seems more a GD subject than anything. It seems, therefore, to even be inviting flames.
So, here we go: DNFTT.
He’s too busy living in the peaceful bliss that is Ireland to bother to reply…