[QUOTE=Brain Wreck]
Actually I think you’ve got it backwards. Strictly organic food is of dubious sustainability because without efficiency multipliers like fertilizer, irrigation, pesticides, it requires the sacrifice of a lot more land to sustain humans.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure this is true. Note, I’m not saying it isn’t, just that I would like to see the numbers. I understand about higher forced yields etc, but that doesn’t say that a strictly organic regime wouldn’t be able to feed everyone globally - if that’s all that the goal was (so no winefarms or luxury agricultural goods, just permaculture gardens). If all the land currently growing grain and soy were given over to managed permaculture, I don’t know what the yields would be. I know about the “Green Revolution”, but recently all I’m hearing is that famine comes from distribution problems not worldwide yields per se.
Note that organic farming does not exclude the keeping of animals. Some of the tastiest meats I eat come from free-range animals on marginal land. Succulent herb-fed Karroo lamb, bushveld antelope, all farmed yet without chemicals. OK, the sheep get dipped (although I hear there are safe products for that, too), but no antibiotic shots or anything.
ETA: I don’t know that irrigation is against organic farming principles. Nor are organic fertilizers or pest control mechanisms.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
Even if humans did consume grains 30,000 YBP, the paleolithic era is generally regarded as having started 2.5 million years ago and to have ended about 10,000 years ago with the beginning of the neolithic era, so grain consumption would still represent only a very small part of human* history.
[/QUOTE]
The point is that 30, 000 years is one of the oldest large stone implement ever found. 30, 000 year isn’t the beginning of people grinding grains, it is merely absolute longest time that a grindstone would be likely to survive.
IOW according to our best evidence humans have been consuming large quantities of grinas for as long as our species has existed. There is no time when we are known not to have been consuming grains. Our closest relatives consume large quantiies of grain when it is available which is strongly indictaive that huamns have been eating garins for longer han our species has existed.
Anyone suggetsing that there was ever a period when humans didn’t eat grains would need to present some damn strong evidence. Alternatively they need some spectatcular reasoning to explain why people wouldn’t consume such as seaosnally abumdant and nutritious food source and how isolated populations worldwide simulatneously developed this new trait 30, 000 years ago.
IOW the whole idea that hominids for some reason stopped eating grains for a few millenia and then re-started is unsupportable bunkum.
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison]
For once, I agree with Hyde. My boyfriend works for Whole Foods in purchasing. Even with a generous employee discount, if he bought groceries solely where he works, he would be spending four or five times as much as he does in the regular grocery store. Clearly, if “organic” is better it’s better only for the rich.
[/QUOTE]
Organic is better because it ‘tastes’ better. I find that the organic produce I buy just is much more satisfying than the large hormone fed stuff that certainly has more bulk, but the flavor is kind of wanting.
As for purchasing at Whole Foods it definitely doubles the cost but it doesn’t quadruple let alone quintuple it. To me it’s about priorities. At this point in my life I’d prefer to eat healthy food even if it means lowering my disposable income. However, that being said, I am not rich, and neither are most of my friends who eat organic produce.
The meat is far and away more expensive, but you can just cut down on your meat intake.
I wouldn’t know how to do this, but I have heard of growing things in combinations that keeps pests away, like growing herbs near your lettuce and what have you.
When I get fresh produce from an organic orchard it is far and away better than produce from the supermarket. That’s partly due to the fact that the initial refridgeration takes something away from it, but still, it’s so much better that way.
Also, organic food is generally grown to maturity on the vine, instead of being culled weaks early and matured artificially with chemicals. I think you notice the largest difference in tomatoes.
Blake Do you consider yourself a part of the planet? If you and your family were to leave the planet and go live on the Moon and setup a Moon colony would it be fair to characterize that as ‘fertilization’? Would it be reproduction in your eyes?