This could be a Great Debate, hell, it could even be a Pit rant.
I’ve made a lot of controversial decisions in my life, but the one I’ve gotten in the most arguments over is being a vegetarian. It’s not even a hot-button political issue. I’ve seen folk who would let everyone vote for who they want, worship where they like, go out with anyone they like, and generally do what they please, get violent over what another person eats.
My real question is, why in the name of all that is unholy can we not lay off each other? Excluding people who are vegetarian for religious or special dietary reasons, what is it that compels vegetarians and meat-eaters to act like such complete pricks over another person’s personal choice?
I’m a carcass eater. I like corpse in my food. Those are things my vegetarian things say to me, but they’re only joking. Saturday I’ll be at a party and half of the people there are vegetarians. The hosts will provide some very tasty vegetarian delights. Carcass eaters are free to bring their own corpse. Everyone gets along. Nobody makes snide comments. People eat what they want to eat and everyone has fun.
I am a vegetarian. I have been one my whole life, and I never bother people about what they eat. I don’t care if other people eat meat, I simply choose not to. I don’t know what meat tastes like, so I don’t know if there is something to it that leaves you craveing more, or if it’s just really good. Either way, it’s none of my business. What bothers me the most is when people say it isn’t healthy to be vegetarian. News Flash! There are other sources of protien then meat. I am perfectly heatly. I rarely get sick, and I one of the strongest women I know. I do have a question for all you meat eaters out there: Does everything really taste like Chicken?
I count many vegetarians as friends (I’m not one). I’ll divide them into two groups: the Became Vegetarians and the Born Vegetarians. I would call these groups American Vegetarians and Indian Vegetarians, but that would probably be politically incorrect.
I’ve come close or engaged in discussions/arguments/brawls with the first category many times, and never with the second category.
The meat eater in these discussions (me) has remained constant throughout each test case; only the vegetarians have changed. Therefore, I propose that it is in fact the Vegetarian that starts the fight. And the fact that they are converted from the norm in their society strikes me as relevant. Much like converted smokers or christians.
Who starts the fight between the converted christian and the non-converted christian (jew, muslim, other christian sect, atheist, etc)?
Most of the forthright people I know who have made any kind of educated decisions about how they choose to live their lives get pretty worked up when they talk to people on the other side who haven’t done their research. Try talking to born-again Christians, recovering alcoholics or ex-smokers about the choices they have made and you’ll see much the same level of fervor.
Shera–over-cooked (particularly boiled) chicken doesn’t taste like much of anything; it tastes like what’s on it (spices et al.). So, something that has no taste and the texture of chicken will get that description slapped on it.
I think one factor is generational. Our parents and grandparents grew up in a culture where meat was tremendously valued as a symbol of plenty and prosperity. People who lived through WWII also saw it rationed for a while. People considered meat to be the center of a healthy diet. If your children didn’t get lots of red meat they would simply fade away.
Although the official nutritional wisdom now differs considerably, this attitude was passed down to some extent to subsequent generations. So a lot of people see vegetarianism as illogical at best and unAmerican at worst.
On the other side, I think pushy vegetarians are just showing the overactive zeal of new converts. When you’ve made a serious moral decision (even if it only concerns your health), it’s hard to believe that anyone wouldn’t agree with it completely.
Here’s my take on the “controversy” you hear about vegetarians vs carnivores.
Having met the militant vegetarian in the past they (the militant ones not the normal ones) tend to give you a scpeil (sp) on how horrible we are for eating meat. That eating meat creates so many problems with the world. That we were never meat eaters to begin with, etc.
Those that do that forget that some of us omnivores eat practically a vegetarian based diet anyway, so what’s to argue?
I tend to stay away from debates on meat vs not eating meat…it usually gets heated. And as I said, I eat mostly a vegetarian diet anyway so the point becomes muddled in a small choice I make.
Oh and not all vegetarians are militant, they are a small minority (those militant ones) and most are normal people anyway. In fact I never even really think about my food habits until a vegetarian brings it up.
I like meat, of all sorts, and animal products like eggs and milk. I see vegetarians as cutting themselves off from an entire realm of aromas, tastes, textures, and mouth-feel that are irreproducible. Furthermore, I have done my research, and I have made an informed choice. Reasonable quantities of meat and dairy products are an excellent source of nutrition, containing some necessary vitamins and minerals in concentrations that you rarely find elsewhere (B12 comes immediately to mind). If you want to be a vegetarian, fine. Do not, however, expect me to react politely and calmly when you act as if your diet somehow sets you above me. Also, I find the presumption that a well-informed, reasoning person would choose vegetarianism offensive.
Six replies and ALREADY the shitblizzard starts up!
Why can the whole lot of us not accept that when someone’s made a lifestyle decision that they’re comfortable with, they’re probably not going to change no matter how we pressure them?! What is it about this little dietary issue that raises such extreme hostilities in so many people?
I’ve had conversations like this with my meat-eating and vegetarian friends.
Meat Eaters-Don’t like being told that meat is murder, it’s not good for them etc…
Vegetarians-Don’t like being told that they should eat meat, not eating meat is not good for them etc…
Both sides seem to get pretty pissy about the same basic thing-they don’t like being told by other people what they should or should not be eating.
I’m a vegetarian…what irks me is the look and inevitable questions I get (usually from the older generations) when I say that I don’t eat meat. “Don’t you get sick of eating salad all the time?” “What DO you eat?” “But you LIKE the taste of meat don’t you?” These are usually said with a look of confusion, disgust or confused disgust.
If I’m pushed to answer the “Why don’t you eat meat” question beyond my answer of “Because I prefer no to” I will elaborate…I try to keep it nice and simple…but it’s never nice and simple…they always want answers…and the answers never seem to make them happy because they just don’t understand.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I eat a lot more often than I vote or worship. Therefore, food figures a lot more prominently in my life and occasionally brings me into conflict with other people.
I think minor issues, like food, are lot more likely to make people angry and confrontational than huge issues, like politics and religion. For example, I tend toward Libertarian politics and my ex-boyfriend supported Nader. This never brought us into conflict, but pizza toppings did. Huge issues are easier to put aside for the duration of a meal.
To ramble on further, I’m an omnivore I can see where a vegetarian could be driven to anger around meat eaters. If I had idealogical objections to eating meat and genuinely believed it was immoral, I would hate to sit around a restaurant and watch people eat meat, watch steakhouse commercials on TV or have meat eaters question my lifestyle choices.
I rarely eat meat and think of myself as a vegetarian, though, as I say, I do eat meat every once in a while. I mostly avoid it, which if you’re not inclined to eat meat, it consumes a lot of your time and energy. Look at a restaurant menu. They’re getting better, but entrees at most mainstream restaurants are hunk-o-meat based. I usually get pasta, which can be iffy if it’s not a carefully prepared dish.
Anyway, what I wanted to say was – I can remember the non-vegetarian mindset clearly. I’ve been this way for only about 7 years. Years ago, my brother announced he was a vegetarian prior to his arrival home from college for the holidays. The tables were groaning, of course, with turkey, ham, chicken, the works. My mother and I (then) regarded bro’s announcement with eye-rolls of disgust at his “selfishness.” (I no longer agree with this view; please don’t get me wrong.) After all, we’d worked hard to prepare all these meat-centered meals, and he was going to come frolicking in, and stick his nose up at all our tasty dishes. Harrumpf.
So, at any rate, there’s my perspective on why meat-eaters might get their hackles up at vegetarians: they see them as an inconvenience to be gotten around at parties and so forth. For that reason, I frequently will eat a little of the meat at such events to be polite and not cause a host discomfort at not having provided me suitable food. (In reality, I usually do just fine with the other offerings!)
In my limited experience with the issue it isn’t dietary choice at the heart of the argument, it’s what Trucido said:
It’s like religion. You beleive what ever you want, that’s just fine with me. Hey, I’ll even defend your right to beleive in her Divine Unicorn-ness. But try to convince me that your belief makes you morally superior and my hackles will start to rise. Tell me that I’m going to burn in lakes of blood cos I don’t beleive in what you do and I might get a little argumentative and impolite.
Ehtilrist and Bill H., just for fun, play with the Search function here and compare how many nasty threads/comments have been made by meat-eaters about vegetarians, and vice-versa, and think about your experiences some more. And remember, the SDMB is supposed to be smarter-than-average people, too.
I have been a vegetarian for ten years and I have never – literally never – made an uninvited comment to a meat-eater about their meal, their dietary preferences, or anything close. But let a meat-eater find out I’m a vegetarian, and let the snide (except that they think they’re being funny) comments start.
My my my, somebody holds themselves in pretty high regards. I choose to eat meat. I enjoy the tastes and smells of meat. I enjoy preparing it. I enjoy how the taste of meat mingles so wonderfully with other non-meat side-dishes to create a savory masterpiece unrivaled by any vegetarian dish (and believe me, I’ve tried more than a few of them). I am not morally opposed to eating meat. I find nothing wrong with it at all. You may say I’m uneducated, I say we just have different priorities. I am well aware of and understand completely the reasons some people choose not to eat meat and can respect their decision. The reason that talks like this get so heated is because of people who say stuff like what you just did. I know vegetarians that I don’t like not because they are vegetarians but because they scoff whenever I put a slice of wonderful roast beef on my plate and start telling me about the error of my ways. THAT’S when it gets ugly.
Perhaps a clarification is in order. I wasn’t talking about the SDMB, its members or previous threads. I was trying to say that the people I have met in real life who have chosen to be vegetarian have tended to be vitriolic when faced with people who didn’t know what they were talking about. The omnivores I have known in real life didn’t express much of an opinion about the vegetarians they had met, and they tended not to express an opinion because they didn’t have one.
romanticide: We seem to travel in different circles. YMMV, as they say. That my experiences differ from yours means they are different, not idiotic.
Yesterday morning, on the way to work, my wife and I heard some FM radio morning crew making fun of vegetarians for what they eat at Thanksgiving. Wow, that’s original–I’ve never heard that before. :rolleyes: I have never, on the other hand, heard someone on the radio make fun of people for eating turkey.
We attended a Dopefest last year which was held at an Outback Steakhouse. We didn’t say a word, ordered what vegetarian options were available, and were content with it. But, by gum, another Doper had to make a stupid, nasty comment about vegetarians about every 30 seconds from the moment we showed up until the moment he left.
romanticide, I think you misunderstood Ethilrist’s post. He wasn’t saying he holds those opinions; he was saying a lot of vegetarians do.
Yes, I wish they had a “bad day” exception to the “Members cannot delete their own posts” rule.
Ethilrist, I may have made a knee-jerk reaction to an innocent anecdotal remark that I confused for arrogance and self-righteousness.
You say that vegetarians are vegetarians because they’ve made an educated choice about how to live thier lives. You proceed to say that non-vegetarians are non-vegetarians either because they’re not aware of the “issues” that make people vegetarians or unaware that such issues exist, therefore just “living their lives as they always have”. Is this correct? If so, I stand by my posts.
