Why do European francophones who have learned English substitute “z” and “s” for “dh” and “th” respectively? (“dh” being the th sound in “the”, and “th” the th sound in “with”).
Compare this to Quebec francophones, who, if they haven’t mastered those English sounds, substitute the much more natural sounding (to a native anglo’s ears) “d” and “t”.
Basically, it’s a matter of what sounds exist in the speaker’s native language. That’s all I can offer, though, as I’m not exceptionally familiar with French phonetics.
Yes, but the differences between European and Quebec French wouldn’t, in my mind, lead naturally to this difference.
I wonder are European francophones taught to substitute those sounds, while Quebec francophones learn more by ear? There are varieties of English which make the same substitutions (th>t, dh>d), but I don’t know of any that go th>s or dh>z.
I would guess that it would heavily depend on what english they are learning. In France they are geographically closer to England, where the english language tends to be proper-ish and “overpronounced”. For this reason the French would be trying to hit their t’s and th’s more crisply and the resulting sounds would be z’s and s’s. The Quebecois, however, are geographically closer to english-speaking Canadians and Americans; both tend to have a more laid-back speech pattern. Therefore, the Quebecois would choose the smoother d’s as an alternative to t’s and th’s.
It all depends on what sounds you are able to produce/differentiate. Which in turn is closely related to what you are exposed to.
Most French francophones have never heard ‘proper’ English (or American for that matter). All films are dubbed in French and even the English techers at school have outrageous French accents. I once met a guy who was studying to be an English teacher in France. While his grammar and vocabulary were impeccable I had trouble understanding his heavy French accent. With that kind of teachers it’s no wonder the kids speak the way they do.
The Quebecois on the other hand cannot quite escape exposure to English, and at least their English teachers have had first-hand experience of native speakers.
It also works the other way. I know nativee English-speakers who have learned French. Some cannot distinguish between ‘dessous’ and ‘dessus’, which for a native French-speaker sounds very different.