Again, this is my take on the matter as well. The OP didn’t need to volunteer, but once she did she is obligated act ethically in that role. If she can’t, then quit the position. It’s the ethical thing to do.
Question to the OP: In your estimate, in a good year, does the photographer make more money than the parents or do the parents make more money than the photographer?
I’m asking because when you first mentioned that the parents were financially unable to buy these pictures, I got the picture of people who were very poor, perhaps migrant farm workers or disadvantaged people with little opportunities.
In your last post, I got the sense that the “poor” people were people that had made a decent amount of money in the past and are either in a cash crunch while they rearrange their assets or are in changed circumstances due to the devaluation of their investments.
It doesn’t make a difference in terms of what I’d consider the ethical thing to do, but if it’s the second scenario, it does take away some of the Robin Hood type rationale, at least in my mind.
I was responding to the hostility from the OP with regards to people telling her what she wanted to do was wrong. She has since said she was kidding, and I have no reason to doubt her.
I never even once suggested otherwise.
Never once suggested otherwise.
You’re very good at rebutting arguments that i never made.
Nah. I think volunteers, and this one in particular, are trustyworthy just fine. But we weren’t talking about me, right? It’s simply been my experience that if you want something done a certain way (definitely if it matters to you a great deal), you either do it yourself or take care of matters in such a way that it ensures you wishes being followed / met.
I meant to address this in a prior post, but was distracted at the time and neglected to do so. Anyway, there isn’t a photographer, but many photographers who work for this company. So for example, we arranged to have the pictures taken on a specific day and the company dispatched a photographer to the school. But on makeup day, a different photographer was sent. I got the impression that they are salaried employees, but I’m not sure on that. However they are not involved in the sales process of the pictures at all. Last year the company sent a representative from their ‘sales dept’ (who was annoyingly pushy) to work with the families on purchases, collect the money, etc. This is the job I am doing now since the company is “short-staffed” this year.
But to answer your question, I have no idea how much the photographers make or how much profit the company makes. The families in question are middle class (or were middle class, not sure what will happen to them now).
Another thing I meant to clarify is that there is definitely some financial benefit that goes to the school. I don’t know the exact arrangement, but the directer of the school clearly wanted me to push a lot of crap on the families. I think they must get a percentage of the sales because I got a lot of reminders like “Be sure and tell the parents that the mugs, tote bags, or framed photos make excellent holiday gifts.”
The form has a box that I have to check that says '(fill in the blank) photos destoyed" . But I’ve had enough discussions with various company reps and I clearly understand that they want me to **shred **them. In fact, the school’s shredder kept jamming so I took most of them home and used my own shredder. I have to admit that it is somewhat disturbing to watch beautiful pictures of little kids (especially my own) getting sliced into ribbons in the shredder.
Just to be clear, this is a private school, and these parents have saved enough money to send their kids here? How much does it cost to send children to this school?
I’ve had a number of discussions over the past few weeks with various people in the sales and order processing dept. That’s how I found out that they would make NO exceptions with the $60 minimum order, even when I asked really nice. I had originally hoped they would let me buy one sheet for each of the 3…which should cost $30, but everyone I talked to said it’s against their “policy”. Anyway, there is one woman there in Order Processing who I’ve developed a decent rapport with and I gave a brief overview of the situation and asked if could combine pics of the 3 families into one order of $60 that I would pay for (meaning that I would pay $60 and get 2 pages of pics for each of the 3 kids). Nope she said, we can’t do that. But then she gave me the wink wink nod nod speil. (“Well if you were to *accidently *put the wrong six in the envelope and shred the wrong ones…you know mistakes can happen…”
So here’s what I did: For kid #1, I checked off Puchase Plan A (the $60 deal that buys you six sheets of photos) and under the section where I had to enter the quantity destroyed, I put 24. In reality, I destroyed 28 of that batch. For kid #2, under purchase plan I checked ‘declined’ and entered 30 in the destroyed section. Truth was, I only destoyed 28, but kept 2. Same thing with kid 3.
I’ve grown pretty close with the mom of kid #1 and know a lot about her financial situation, which is truly devastating. I know she isn’t homeless or a migrant farm worker, but she and her husband have literally lost everything. I don’t want to get way OT but briefly: they bought a house for $100m (using fake #s to keep it simple) and put 20% down (their life savings) so they have an $80m mortgage. However because of the decline in the local housing market, their house is now worth $70m so they have lost their life savings and they now owe the bank more money than the house is worth. Lots of other things going on with them as well :house is now in foreclosure, husband layed off, have to pay property taxes based on the $100m value, so they’ve had to cut a lot of costs (such as the daughter’s dance classes which they can no longer afford). Anyway, I really feel for this woman. She’s had to explain to her 4 year old that she can no longer go to dance, can’t buy her class pics, are moving to an apt, etc. Yes I know there are people worse off, but I know her and she is a very decent person and is clearly suffering greatly. ANyway, she was at my house yesterday and I told her that I had to shred the pics of her daughter, but if she picked out 2 I’d keep it our secret. She was literally in tears and was so appreciative. She’s kind of an emotional wreck right now, but said she has cried herself to sleep for the past several weeks. She said the hardest thing about their situation is how it is affecting their daughter. These pics btw are BEAUTIFUL. I did emphasize that this had to be top secret…no displaying them on facebook, etc.
Slightly different with kids 2 & 3 since I had to do it at school. So I chose the sheets I thought were best and gave them to them in an envelope. Message to moms was similar: I know its against the rules, but I also know how much you really wanted these pics. Same admonishments to keep it top secret. I got a very nice email last night from mom #3 expressing how much it means to her. Apparently she’s been dealing with a lot of creditors and she said it was so incredible to have someone actually do something nice for her. I genuinely feel that all 3 moms were truly touched and even though it was wrong, I justified it in the following way:
- The photo company got $60 that they would not otherwise have
- I saved this company a lot of money by doing the work of their employee. I’ve spent at least 8 hours (maybe more) on this project, so they got 8 hours of work for free.
- Company also saved money by having me shred their stuff (on my shredder) rather than cough up the fed ex money to send it back.
So in my mind, the company came out ahead and so did the parents. Yes, technically I lied, but I won’t lose any sleep over this. I know I’ll get a lot of criticism, my I really feel like it was the decent thing to do.
We don’t have public preschools or daycare here…actually I’m not sure they exist anywhere. My daughter goes to the Preschool only (from 9-12) which costs $375/month. But most parents use the school as a daycare and their kids are there full time because they work. I can’t remember how much full time costs but know it wasn’t that much more than preschool, since its babysitting instead of teaching. I do know that the school has discounted tuition for several families who have been hit hard by the economy. Not sure how much though.
Ah, so you *did *opt for “playing Lady Bountiful with someone else’s property”. Why am I not surprised? :dubious:
No she didn’t. She PAID for a set number of pictures, then gave that exact number of pictures to the parents. She was TOLD that she could “accidentally” mix them up in the set, which she did. So what? She PAID for them. Jeez, some people are so pedantic.
Good on you, Enola. I think you found the perfect solution.
For the third time in this thread, I’m echoing what someone else said. 
By paying for a set of photos, and getting the nudge/wink from the photographer to divide them up, I think you did good. I question whether they all will remain quiet for next year but you can burn that bridge when you get to it. (Actually, since your child will be in another school next year you can burn that bridge now.)
I also think you did the right thing. In my humble opinion, sometimes doing so means going against conventional codes of ethics. I’m glad those children and their parents got some commemorative pictures.
No criticism here, Enola Gay. I think you did the absolute best anyone could do, and put a lot of hard thought and soul-searching into it. I also think your compromise solution was rather brilliant. Since the photography firm’s representative was okay with it, and they still received money they wouldn’t have otherwise, then your word was redeemed, IMO.
You went to considerable pains to be kind to people who need it badly right now. That’s pretty damned great right there.
Eh?
rereads
takes knife, fork and bib
tucks into humble pie
I was wrong.
dines heartily
Yum!
Like I said, I know it wasn’t technically clean, but I did consider all the comments here and ultimately did what I thought was best. I wasn’t seeking nor expecting your approval. And frankly (and I say this as an agnostic) if there is a heaven and it’s full of judgemental people who lack compassion, then I’d be happier in hell. Hey at least that good for nothing mhendo and the morally bankrupt Marley will be there. They seem like they’d be a lot more fun to hang out with.
(I should point out this is sarcasm, and should not be misinterpreted as hostility or defensiveness. I suspect both of the guys (?) I mentioned have higher integrity than many of the holier than thou types. Just a hunch)
And thanks to everyone who offered support, advice, criticism, and other perspectives, . I really did consider all the comments, esp from people who were photographers (or maybe their spouses were photogs, can’t remember)…but that did give me a different angle to consider. But ultimately I was most affected by the post by the mom who was once on the receiving end of pictures she couldn’t afford. It seemed to mean a lot to her, as it did to these moms.
ETA: Too late to edit my last post but I just read your other comment, Malacandra. Apologies.
Your solution sounds close enough to ethical that I would probably consider something like that myself, considering that the company rep basically said it would be ok.
And I say that even as one of the guys I imagine you meant by the holier than thou types.
I think you made the right decision.