Ethics of Reverse Phone Directories

Great Debates
1

Heard about this on a local news broadcast recently. Didn’t find a GD thread on this, but there are a couple of GQ threads that mention them.

If you are not familiar with reverse phone directories, go to Google and type in any full (land line) phone number that belongs to you or your friends and family. If the number is listed, you will get a name, address, and links to map and directions.

There are any number of inoffensive situations where this type of search capability might come in handy, but I have to admit, at first blush, I found it rather ominous. (Not so much on my own behalf, because I my own unlisted number does not give a result).

It obviously can’t be construed as a straight invasion of privacy, because you approved of the information’s publication. But the effect of using the relational database this way changes things from a situation in which a person had to have some idea who you were before contacting you to one in which you can type 10 more or less random numbers into a search engine, and come up with a name, address, and turn-by-turn-with-maps directions.

What’s interesting though, is the nature of the objection one might have with this. Google’s database system takes information freely given by the phone account holder to the directories whom they know are going to publicize it, then sorts it by number, stores it, and performs a search to see if any number typed in is already in the database, then passes along its related information if it’s there.

You can ask that Google remove your information from their directory, at which point they are happy to tell you who else offers such directories that you may still be in. If you wished a law passed that such use of the information should not be allowed, how could you put it? “Thou shalt not sort on the phoneNumber field, nor provide a two-way relation between tables except where…”?

Everyone I show this to finds it disturbing, but how ought it to be handled?

2

But you can get this information without having the telephone number, right? Why would a crook (or other nefarious person) have to put in random numbers to get this information? How is it any different than putting in random names?

I recently used a reverse phone directory to look up a mysterious phone number on my caller ID. The number was not in the directory. Then I looked up my telephone number. My name and address popped up just like I expected it would, but my zip code was also revealed. Normally this isn’t included in the regular directory. I didn’t find it too troubling, though. Maybe I’m not as paranoid as I should be.

3

How is this any different then randomly selecting a number from the phone book?

I just don’t see the problem. It’s public information. It would be naive to think you could give your phone number to someone without allowing them to, from it, determine your name and/or address. If you don’t want your phone number to trace back to you in a public forum then you need to get an unlisted number.

4

There’s another problem with reverse directories, which I was a victim of a few years back. Reverse directories are used by telemarketers to build databases of people to call. What happened to me is that the phone company included me in a reverse directory without my permission. Mortgage companies, contractors, and other home-improvement businesses were able to get my phone number by looking up my address. What they didn’t know is that my address is the same as my landlord, but I am not the owner of the property. That didn’t stop them from calling me several times each day, though. And once your number gets into a marketing database, it is sold to other marketers, and then there’s no stopping it. I became suspicious when the calls started flooding in, most of them using my landlord’s name and asking to speak to him, even though he has an entirely seperate phone line. I called my phone company, which informed me that, unlike their competitor (who I had previously had), they automatically put customers on a reverse-directory without notifying them. The only way not to be put in the reverse directory is to already know about the practice and specifically ask them NOT to do so.

Thank God for the Do Not Call list. Solved that problem in a heartbeat.

But like monstro, I can’t think of any reason that being able to find names and addresses by putting in random phone numbers would be a problem. Finding names and phone numbers from addresses though - that’s bad.

5

Most of the reverse directories out there aren’t maintained by your local phone company. They are maintained by third parties using the standard data given by your local phone company. The only reliable way to remove yourself from all of them is to have an unlisted number so you’re not included in the standard data.

It gives a marketer another angle to work from, but it’s still public information. It’s really no worse than other telemarketing calls. Furthermore, you can find a name and often a phone number from an address using your county property/tax records as well. Many of these are now searchable over the Internet too.

6

But this particular one I’m talking about was.

What’s your point?

7

At the time I lived in Australia, Telstra was not offering reverse phone directory capability. I believe this is still the case.

Yet, reverse phone directories, using CD-ROMs were freely available, for a charge. I asked a Telstra friend about it who told me the phone directories were routinely sent outside of the country (i.e., selected SE Asian countries) by companies employing people to manually transcribe the numbers from the phone books into databases. Those databases in turned were used to create reverse phone directory CDs later sold in Australia.

FWIW, our local Baby Bell offshoot offers reverse phone directories on its web site, does almost daily advertising about it for anyone to use, and gives away reverse phone directory CDs to just about anyone, if you know who to ask.

8

True, but in the interest of providing further information to other users of the forum I thought it might be worth providing some additional information. Requesting your phone company remove you from their own reverse directory does relatively little when you’re still listed in the numerous other ones out there.

My point is it’s not really a problem with reverse phone directories (and surely not one that requires legislation). The information was readily available before they became prevalent.

9

It may simply be a question of what you are used to.

Growing up in Boston, the operator quite simply would not give you the address once you had asked for a phone number for particular name, and it was stated as a matter of privacy. This was back just after the breakup of Bell telephone, who IIRC claimed proprietary rights to telephone numbers, so maybe they considered it a different privacy matter: They would give the telephone number they owned for a particular person, but their address was theirs to give you or not. You also could not get a phone number with simply the address in hand. You had to have a name.

I don’t know if it’s still that way there now, and I know that my wife, who grew up in California, has always been able to request the address of the operator.

10

Actually, in this case there was a marked increase in the number of marketing calls I received when I switched phone companies - enough to make me suspicous to the point that I called the phone company. Only then did I learn of their reverse-directory. Had I known, and not allowed them to list me as such, I am quite sure I would have gotten fewer marketing calls. But as I pointed out, once the damage was done, and the list was sold to more and more marketing agencies, then it was too late to undo it.

Did I say it required legislation?

11

Yes. MCI asked me if they could list me in a reverse-directory, and I declined. When I switched to Pacific Bell, they did not ask. They just did it. And just to be clear, I’m not asking for legislation as some have fancifully imagined; but it would be nice if there were some consistency between companies.

12

No, and I wasn’t implying you had. The OP brought it up, and that’s I was referring to, albeit off-handedly.

I did not fancifully imagine you said such.

Was your phone company switch prompted by a change of address? Did your phone number change? If so, your telemarketing calls may well have been more directly attributable to that then any listing in a reverse directory.

That’s interesting. Didn’t the Boston phone book list addresses? Here the phone book’s always listed the number and address next to the name.

13

Way back in the 1950s, one could go to any branch of the Dallas Public Library and ask to see a “criss-cross.” These were, in essence, phone books that allowed you to look up an address to obtain a name and phone number, or, you could look up a phone number to obtain a name and address. I’m not positive, but non-published phone numbers might not have been an option back in those days. I know that I used the things quite a few times and never failed to get the information mentioned above. I would guess that criss-crosses were available in libraries anywhere, but I only know specifically about Dallas. So, it ain’t nothin new cause of PCs.

14

The telephone companies have sold reverse directories for some time. I believe that companies can buy copies on CD that are pre-sorted this way. Or you can buy the regular white pages on CD and sort them yourself.

Below info is from SBC.

15

No, the phone calls were most certainly generated by a reverse-directory. Not his real name, but let’s say my landlords’ name is Mr. Smith. I would receive several calls a day asking, “May I speak to Mr. Smith”? I knew they weren’t friends of my landlord, because they either identified themselves as salesmen, or they mispronounced his name, or both. In reality, my landlord has an unusual last name, and the only explanation for marketers calling ME was that they had looked up the address and found MY phone number. I suppose the calls could have been generated by OTHER reverse directories that just happened to come out at the same time as Pacific Bell’s reverse directory, but I prefer to go with the more likely explanation. Is there some reason you are being so contentious about this?

16

I’m sure there are probably other reverse directories out there but you can have your number removed from google.

17

No reason other than I don’t really see how them calling your number and asking for your landlord proves the number was obtained from a reverse directory and, therefore, I don’t really see how reverse directories are any more problematic than standard directories in terms of telemarketing.

It seems apparent that his name was associated with your number in some directory. Sure, it could be a reverse directory. But why isn’t it just as plausible that the marketers picked his name at random? Or perhaps they determined it was a new listing and called the number offering all the standard crap they offer to new listings.

Really, all we know for certain is they called your number and asked for him. We can’t say what data they started with or how they obtained the number.

18

I don’t find it disturbing at all.

If someone types in my phone number at random and gets my name and address, so what? They could find it just as easily by picking my name at random out of a regular phone book.

If I call someone and they look up my name and address from caller ID… again, so what? They could just as easily get my last name from caller ID and look me up in the white pages. If I don’t want them to do that, I can use caller ID blocking.

19

Um, you’re really not getting this. MY LANDLORD AND I SHARE THE SAME ADDRESS, BUT NOT THE SAME PHONE NUMBER. WE HAVE COMPLETELY SEPERATE PHONE LINES. THE PHONE LINES ARE NOT ASSOCIATED IN ANY WAY. If they picked his name at random, they would have called HIS number, not mine. We have different names and different phone numbers, but THE SAME ADDRESS. Are you always this obtuse?

20

Still, how does that prove it was a reverse directory? How do you even know they knew the address at all?

We know they have your phone number, seeing as they called it. We know that they were under the impression that it was your landlord who would be picking up the phone, since they butchered his name on the greetings. What in that screams reverse directory any more than it says a standard listing?

All you’re showing here is that your number and his name (and perhaps the shared address) were listed together in a directory. So far nothing you’ve said makes a reverse directory any more likely than anything else.