Assuming none of the arguments about getting refunds work…
I’d suggest looking at it like this. If she’s a good enough friend for you to be able to explain the whole situation and ask for $110 without repercussion, then do so. If not, then you need to consider her to be a guest as well as a friend, and cope with the $220 yourself.
Where on earth do you get this idea? There are implied contracts carried out every moment of every day in which both parties don’t exchange every bit of information about the contract. When you go to the grocery store, they don’t need to tell you that you can return nonperishables, but you can’t take a drink from a carton of milk and then return, it before you’re allowed to pay.
I have no idea what the law is on implied contracts and cancellation policies, but personally, if I’m told an appointment for something costs x, I would expect to pay x if canceling outside the window, not some random fee.
That being said, I hope indygrrl gets her money back, just because I do.
Add me to those who would never have thought to interpret the policy that way. “24-hour cancellation policy” just means that there is some penalty for canceling inside of that window. It says nothing about what that penalty is. It’s also pretty ridiculous to have such a policy with no exception for appointments that were originally made within that 24 hour window.
That might be standard in some places, but I’ve gotten manicures, pedicures, and hair procedures for years and have never had dealings with a place that had that policy. And obviously if it is my first time scheduling at that salon it would make sense for them to explain it to me.
Since when does “standard” mean that I should have psychic powers to know things about places I’ve never been to? Honestly, that isn’t something a lot of people know about, especially people who have never booked appointments at a spa like that. Hell, my doctor’s office has a “24-hour cancellation policy” and that means they charge you $25 if you cancel at the last minute or no-call, no-show.
I wasn’t informed and there is no way they can say I was. Well, they can say it, but they’d be lying.
I have to say, whenever I am asked for a credit card number, then I make the same assumption, and consider it my responsibility to ask for a clarification on the policy if I think I may need to use it. The only time I would assume there is not a full charge is if “$20 fee” is explicitly stated, or I am not asked for a credit card number. Now, I may hope that they’ll be a sport if something comes up, but by default I would assume full-charge is the official policy. I don’t go to spas, so I guess I picked this up from hotels and car rentals. But I also agree, just giving out your CC# doesn’t mean you agreed to any charge that others make take as convention.
Indygrrl, another thought is to go check the spa’s website (any upscale salon should have one) and see if the 100% charge is mentioned there. If not, then that is certainly a point in your favor. And even if it is stated, it doesn’t sound like they asked on the phone if you saw the policies on the website. Hope it works out.
Actually, in most grocery stores you’ll find that you can do exactly that. If there is some reason you’re dissatisfied with a product, perishible or not, they’ll usually refund your money or offer an exchange.
Me, too. We have a “24-hour cancellation policy” at the women’s health care clinic where I work, and the penalty pretty much consists of… a little bitching and moaning on our part and perhaps a slightly lower inclination to pull strings to get you in at the last minute.
I’ve seen a fee for missed or late-cancellation appointments spelled out at my PCP and dentist’s office, but never --never-- have I encountered a place that would charge you in full for the visit, and furthermore, if their intention and policy is to do just that, they damn well ought to have told you when you called to cancel so that you’d have the option of using the appointment that you’d be paying for anyway, or at least getting someone else into that time slot. The fact that they didn’t tell you, either up front when booking or when calling to cancel in violation of their “policy” would incline me to fight like bloody hell over this. On the other hand, I don’t visit super poshy salons and have no idea if this kind of thing is standard practice among the shi-shi set 
, so there you are.
Maybe you would assume that because you have been someplace that had that policy. It never would have crossed my mind to think of it that way.
And I didn’t look at their website, I got their number from the phone book. That is how I found them and how I booked it. I just looked it up, and yes, it does state that policy. But like I said, I got them last minute out of the phone book.
This is definitely a learning experience for me. I will never again give my cc number to hold a spot at any salon. In fact, from now on if there’s anything like that I’ll take care of it in cash or I won’t book there at all. This idea of charging people 100% for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is ludicrous.
While I agree that 100% is ludicrous, they aren’t charging you for “nothing.” They are holding a slot (or in this case two slots) in which their staff can’t take another appointment. If you cancel or don’t show up they’re out the money from you and they’re out any money they might have made from the person who might otherwise have booked the slots.
legal question: is their refund policy printed anywhere where the public can see it?
If not, you could scream and shout about taking them to small claims court for fraud, breach of contract (even if it’s a only a verbal contract), adding charges without informing you, etc, etc. It may not stand up in court, but if you scream enough the manager may decide to back down just to avoid a bureaucratic hassle.
I don’t visit them either, on the rare occasions I do go to salons, they’re mid-range. But for salon/spa/hair type services, that’s been the policy.
I wouldn’t put medical services under the same category as a mani/pedi and would expect them to have different policies.
I beg to differ. They knew at 9:00 the night before that those slots would be open. They didn’t have to call their nail techs in or anything like that. If 24 hours notice is ok, why is 18 hours difference so vastly different when it comes to scheduling those slots?
And again, at no point did they tell me their policy. It was only after I missed the appts. that I knew I was being charged 100%. Had I known at 9:00 when I called to cancel, I would have gone for the services and brought a friend with me.
I talked to the bank this morning and they are crediting my account. The spa would have to prove that I authorized the debit, and there’s no way they can do that. It was all done over the phone, so there was no signature, nada. I have my fingers crossed that this is the last I hear of it.
Well, that’s good news. I was expecting this to end poorly.
Yes, I’m sure they have their nail techs on call as opposed to in the salon for the appointments before and after yours…
And how far down that slope shall we slip? “If 18 hours is OK, why is 12 hours so vastly different? If I called in the morning and cancelled an afternoon appointment, why is that so different?” The closer to the appointment time the cancellation is, the less time the salon has to try to book another appointment to replace you.
You were so advised of the existence of the policy. You were advised of it when you called to cancel the appointment. But instead of asking what the policy was, you assumed that they would just charge you a fee.
Probably should have asked when the person from the salon told you of the existence of the policy on the phone when you called to cancel the appointments, then.
I think you’re being unnecessarily snarky here. I occasionally (maybe twice a year) go to foo-foo salons for manicures, pedicures, facials, etc. Typically they DO have a cancellation policy; however, I’ve NEVER had the policy not clearly explained when I booked my appt. Further, if I called to cancel the day before the appt. I would discuss the circumstances of the cancellation and make arrangements to have my deposit as either a credit for a future appointment, or refunded in full. I’ve never had any problem with either of these options, whatsoever. I’m very…persuasive. (Some would say bitchy.)
The spa that Indygrrl booked at is clearly run by a moron. Firstly, if a woman calls and books and then discovers she needs to cancel the same day, treat her nicely and most likely she’ll come back. Secondly, if it’s an even remotely good spa they’ll have so much walk up traffic, the cancelled appointments will be filled the next day. Thirdly, to put unauthorized charges on a credit card costs THEM money when the client objects.
To not discuss the policy, to be obnoxious when a client needs to cancel, and to charge the credit card without authorization are not the hallmarks of a good business owner.
When your friend is in town, Indygrrl, I hope you and she have a lovely spa day, at a different spa. If I were you, I think I’d send a short note to the obnoxious owner of the first spa to that effect.
That is what the bitch made it sound like when I spoke to her about it.
It is called being a reasonable business owner and human being. If you can’t let someone out of an appointment for ANY reason whatsoever, that is ridiculous and completely inflexible, especially if they were trying to cancel only a few hours after originally scheduling. They had plenty of time to book other clients. I don’t think most people try to call after 5:00 p.m. for appointments for the next day, so it isn’t as if they would have had a bunch of people calling at night wanting those slots.
If I had tried to cancel it on Wed. morning I could see where that would be a problem, but I did everything I could to let them know. And they still didn’t tell me I would be charged 100%, nor did they offer to let me reschedule or anything like that. I didn’t ask because it just didn’t occur to me. Never in my life have I been anywhere that the policy was that way. I would have never booked there had I known. If they had told me the policy I would have found a way to get there. I would have grabbed a friend and we would have gone. But since they didn’t tell me, I had no reason to think I should have to do that.
Saying, “We have a 24 hour cancellation policy” is advising me the existence of a policy, but it certainly doesn’t lead a person to believe they will be charged $220 if they cancel. It is vaguely telling people they want notice on cancellations. Like I have said, that was the first time I’ve ever gone to that spa, it would have been wise of them to tell me their policy to make sure I understood it. That is their responsibilty, not mine. And obviously the bank agrees with me on that.
What is your dog in this fight? Seriously? Are you a spa owner or something? Why is it so hard to understand that I didn’t think to ask every detail of their policies? Nothing in ten years of experience in booking appointments in salons would lead me to believe they would have such a crazy policy.
I don’t get why you can’t see that the spa was being unreasonable about this. It isn’t good customer service to SCREW people out of money because they couldn’t be a little bit flexible. There are several ways they could have handled it and still gotten my money, but now they are shit out of luck. They are not going to be able to prove that I authorized anything on my credit card. I never signed anything, there’s no paper, and if, by chance, they recorded the phone call, it would be obvious to anyone listening to it that nothing was explained to me.
And once I know it’s all cleared up I plan to make a complaint to the BBB and I’m also going to make a complaint on Angie’s List. And then there’s the bad word-of-mouth that has already begun with several friends. And news of that kind of bullshit treatment spreads like wildfire, especially among women who frequently go to salons for services.
How is asking “what does that mean?” going into every detail of their policy? I envision the conversation thusly:
You: Hi, I need to cancel the appointments I set up for tomorrow at 3.
Spa: OK, there’s a 24 hour cancelleation policy.
You: What does that mean?
Spa: If you cancel less than 24 hours before your appt we charge you the full price for it.
You: Oh, well, then I’ll keep the appointment.
I already said that I thought 100% was unreasonable. You yourself have said that you don’t find paying a cancellation fee unreasonable, just not 100%.
But you’re right, I have no dog in this hunt, other than having been, years ago, on the booking end of service appointments and having heard this sort of complaint before. So I’ll be moving on.
Actually, the very first woman I talked to when I was cancelling said that about the 24-hour cancellation and I said, “Well, if that means you intend to charge me a penalty fee then I will need to speak with the manager.” That would have been the time for her to say, “Well, it’s not a fee, it is 100%.”
I just think the responsibility to explain things is on them, not the customer.
Wait, what?
I think it’s clear we aren’t getting enough information here. I’m glad you got your money back, and I certainly think their insisting on charging you anyway when you called was an incredibly shitty and stupid thing to do. But being shitty and stupid isn’t the same as being in the wrong.
If you asked whether they intend to charge a penalty and they said no, then obviously you are in the right completely. But without knowing how the entire conversation went, we have no way of knowing. The fact that you asked them whether they intended to charge you a penalty is enormously important and probably a point in your favor. How they answered is even more important, and you haven’t told us. What else have you left out?
That said, I’m on your side either way. Bad customer service is bad customer service. (And if there’s one thing we Dopers know about, it’s bad customer service! ;)) I think you should post the name of the salon here, as well as on Angie’s List.