The amount of time I spend in very upscale bars is zero to none. However, tonight I have roped myself into going to one to meet some online acquaintances.
I like zinfandel, and having checked the place’s wine list online, I can see that they only have one kind. I know from weary experience that most places seem to get no call for zin, and so the one bottle they have has been open for two years and has completely oxidized, either going to vinegar or that other kind of turning which is even worse where it tastes like watered-down brandy.
I don’t want to have to be sending my first drink back within 5 minutes of meeting new people, but I like zin MUCH better than merlot or cabernet.
Is there any way to discreetly ask the waitperson about this when ordering?
You can ask if they’re opening a new bottle. Nothing wrong with that. If they say no then just happily order an alternative.
Not something that would worry me because my wife loves zin and the non-upscale bar we go to goes through at least a bottle a week. Being regulars and good tippers, if my wife wanted a glass of fresh zinfandel they’d toss the old bottle and unscrew a new one
“Upscale bar” and “bottle of wine opened for two years” don’t go together. Heck, “upscale bar” and “opened more than one day” don’t go together unless they have a wine storage system.
Are you sitting at the bar? If so, you can eyeball the wine storage area. Sometimes you can glean some info from that - do they have a fancy wine storage system? Are the dates the bottle was opened written on the label? Lack of either isn’t necessarily bad - if they go through wine fast enough, neither are really needed - but it can give you an idea.
Other thoughts - you can ask for a taste easily enough: “I really like big rich Zins, I haven’t had this one, is it typical of the grape?” will often be all that’s needed for an offering of a taste.
You could always call ahead and just ask anonymously as well.
Athena: Sadly, what constitutes an upscale bar, even in San Francisco, is simply some place with nice decor that is willing to charge 1/3 to 1/2 more than everyone else. One has no reasonable expectation of anyone connected to the buying or serving of wine knowing anything at all about it beyond name and price. In fact, the bar is attached to a hotel, so take that as you will.
Also, I expect that what constitutes “upscale” to myself may perhaps be in need of an update.
Your and TriPolar’s advice is excellent. Thank you. There are certain drawbacks to living under a rock; although it’s a very nice rock on the whole. Now, off to panic about garments!
Yeah, they have a Russian River Pinot that I’m curious about. I may start with a half-glass of that. There’s also an intriguing blend called “The Prisoner;” but at $24 a glass I probably will not find out lol. I have to pay BART fare back and forth, and of course tips, and I have no intention of dropping a hundred dollars in one evening.
Most bars can recoup their bottle cost as long as they sell a couple glasses; the markup is likely close to 100%.
That said, “leftover wine” can go to the staff during shift drinks, be used for cooking, or simply thrown out. Bars/restaurants that have so much wine left over that they’re losing money on the half-empty bottles typically end up shifting how many wines by the glass they sell, or going out of business.
What Athena said…ask to taste the Zin-they’ll pour you a sip, you swirl it in your glass & enjoy the aroma, then take your sip. If you like it, great, they’ll fill the rest of the glass & if not, go for the Russian River Pinot–it’s delicious!
When you go to a truly “upscale” bar/restaurant (measured by professionalism, not necessarily price) one of the things you’re paying for is knowledgeable, quality service - don’t be afraid to start a dialogue, ask for recommendations, etc. (and if you have a budget, say so - they understand, they’re not high rollers themselves!)
It’s literally their job to take care of you (so you spend money, tip well, come back, and tell all your friends), so relax and work with them.
Back when I used to take care of more of the wine at my store and I knew the wholesale prices, I happened to notice that wine prices at restaurants were about the (wholesale) cost of a bottle. At first that seemed odd, to mark it up so high, but thinking about it, it makes a bit of sense. They open a bottle and sell you a glass, that one glass pays for the bottle and gives them the ability to dump the bottle if need be without losing any money. The second glass is the profit and the third is, well, free money.
Of course, that’s not to say every restaurant dumps any wine that’s been open for more than a day or two, but they can and not be throwing away money with it.
On a side note (and this isn’t something I’d normally suggest as a non-wine drinker and a generally picky person), you may want to find another type of wine you can drink, or at least choke down just for these cases. Granted, if you’re okay ordering a beer or mixed drink, it’s moot, but it would be helpful in your case if on the zero to none chance you’re at a bar, you can just order the House Cab (or whatever you can drink).
It might also be easier to just get the “house zin” .That’s likely the most recently opened bottle since many of the people that want a zin will just ask for the House Zin.
That’s really going to depend on how upscale it is. Sure, if the bill for two people is $200+, yeah, they probably have a sommelier on staff. If you’re going to Chili’s or Fridays, about the best you can hope for is that the GM gave the servers a list of wines to prove and/or the bartender is more than just a guy that memorized how to make a few drinks. And everything in between.
Do let us know how it went. If I’d seen this thread before today, I’d have steered you to the Prisoner, from what you’d told us about their choices and your preferences. The Prisoner is a very extracted, quite oaked red wine, that is quite popular (evidenced by so many other wineries copying its style and trade dress, if not quite its markup.) It shouldn’t have quite the alcohol content or the volatile acidity of the Lodi Zinfandels you’ve mentioned liking, but I still think you’d have liked it. 24 bucks a half glass is just insulting though, especially in San Francisco.
EDIT: Athena answered all of the etiquette answers I would have, and much more clearly and concisely to boot.
I agree, and if not, you can also ask about the wine preservation system they use, which may be a nitrogen or argon based system. And when the bottle was opened, if not new. I see nothing wrong with asking questions, and any decent establishment serving wine by the glass should know the answers and be able to provide them, and should never serve wine that has gone off.
Allowing a red to breathe for a while can be important – much more for some reds than others – but I’ve never heard the “day before” claim. Aerators and decanters exist to help accelerate breathing for wine that’s just been opened. What I will say about “day after” wines is that some survive 24 hours and potentially even longer very well, an ability often correlated with the quality of the wine, and provided the bottle isn’t much less than half full (and well stoppered, of course). But even as a fervent advocate of the idea that some reds (not all) absolutely must be allowed to breathe for a time, I have never encountered a wine that is actually better the next day IMO than one allowed to properly breathe after opening. But I suppose some quality reds survive it so well that, to some people’s tastes, the partial oxidation is an improvement.
