Europa Universalis 3 questions

The Game Room
1

I’ve played Eu3 with the first two expansions. I’ve wondering if adding Heir to the Throne makes it much better. Secondly, I have terrible problems loading this bad boy. I assume the game is badly designed, because it takes ridiculous amounts of time to load up, to the point where I . But that is on my laptop, so it might just be my computer being slow. Is it better with more hardware as on my desktop?

Anyway, Eu3 is 6$ and HttT an amazing 2$ on Steam.
The other question is, is France still this unstoppable killing machine in HttT? Because I’ve found Spain almost unplayable: no matter how I try to please them, no matter how many victories I have in a war, no matter how hard I try… France always declares war and crushes me. I have managed to beat almost everyone and everything else, and it annoys me that France is such an ahistorical juggernaut right from the start. I have no idea how anyone manages without cheating - they basically get every historical strength and then some and no historical weakness. I know they wanted to keepo people from stomping France right at the start… but this is ridiculous.

2

I’m currently playing EU3 + Heirs to the throne. I’ve no problem loading the game quickly on my laptop, so I guess it isn’t a design issue.

For the rest, I can’t help because I never played without all three expansions, so I can’t compare (I had only played EU 1 before, a completely different beast)

That said, France doesn’t appear unstoppable to me. Until now, I only played 4 games, with Britanny (I got crushed in quick order by France, but that was to be expected), Hungary, Dai Viet and Austria. With the latter three countries, France wasn’t really a direct concern, but still I don’t think it was unstoppable because :

-I’ve seen the AI form Spain with roughly the historical borders, and keep her ground, and if the AI can do that, a human player most certainly can too. In another game I also saw Burgundy developping into a major power and holding its ground (that included good chunks of historical France) for quite a long time.

-Now that I’m playing a major power for the first time (Austria), I could destroy France any time I like (or any other country for that matter), so I tend to assume it would be the same with any other major power, including Castilla.

-Finally I didn’t notice that France had a huge tendancy to turn against Spain. It seems to me that she’s usually more agressive against England and Burgundy, for instance.

I don’t know for sure in what supplement the “lucky countries” feature was included. But France is one of the default “lucky” countries. If you had trouble against France, did you try to set the “lucky countries” to “random” or “none”?

Also, did you take your time? You’ve some 420 years to win, and it doesn’t really matter much if you’re on the defensive or even lose some provinces at the beginning of the game. In the long run, with an human brain you should outclass the AI (for instance with a better colonization, trade income, conquest of North Africa, whatever…).

Also, how were the alliances? I’ve noticed that the AI countries tend to stick with the allies they made early on. Playing as Hungary, I’ve been blocked by an indefectible alliance between Austria and Poland/Lithuania, for instance. Which means that the alliances formed at the very beginning of the game (the very first years, even) can have a huge impact. If you let France ally herself with England+Portugal, for instance, you’re going to have a problem.
That said, France is indeed on steroids. That would be because it’s just so filthy rich.

3

Cool.

Playing Castille, I had a beast of time forming Spain because of the freakish requirement that you conquer Aragon. OK, you don’t HAVE to conquer Aragon. You can try to turn it into a vassal and diploannex it (semi-historical). The problem is that this also requires a very non-historical war. So you are playing Castille, which starts out strong for a local boy but is far weaker than France, trying to conquer chunks of Aragon. However, in every In Nomine game I played, the damn French were hell-bent on conquering Aragon from the word go.

Maybe I’ve just been really unlucky, but this is over a dozen games. Yes, I’ve tried playing that many times. Some times, the AI just seems to decide I lose, even when I’m attacking with a superior general on favorable ground with a superior army. I’m not sure if this is a real problem, since the EU series is almost always honest. Still, if I have allies they insist on dragging me into wars, but they do nothing if I declare watr against a hated foe. With a war that combines Castille, Aragon, Portugal, England, and Burgundy (plus out various minor allise), France still crushes me. if I play offense I am groundot powder. If I play defense, I get nickel and imed as I am slowly forced back desite constant ambushes. France just never seems to break down.

I have literally cheated the game to see what happens if I delete all their armies, ruin their treasury, and make every bad decision in the game. France still won that war. After testing, I had to do the above three times and conquer every France province just to bring them to the bargaining table!

Austria is the one power I’ve seen which sometimes completely outdoes France. It’s amazing. I’ve seen them stomp the Ottomans and then eat Germany for breakfast.

Both ways, actually. Didn’t matter.

Well, I did try that. My first games were on trading, slow growth, and conversion of the infidels. It ultimately didn’t matter. France brutally sodomized my turf, and wanted a huge chunk of Castille to stop. In fact, I generally couldn’t even get them to the bargaining table unless they had conquered most of Spain already.

It’s not just the money. They have a ridiculously good land-power culture choices right from the start. If you want to colonize lots of stuff like me, then you can’t easily go so deep down those trees.

Maybe it was just chance, but I’m literally terrified of France. I’ve spent whole games just trying to kneecap them early enough that their steamroller couldn’t wipe me, and it often didn’t matter.

4

I originally played with the first two expansions, and then later got HttT, which struck me as a much deeper and more interesting game. I also had trouble with loading times, both on my laptop and on a desktop in my office.

I ran into problem with France in my first couple games, where I was England then Castile, but after I got the hang of the game, France ceased to be a problem. France begins by trying to push England off of the mainland and vassalizes all of the small kingdoms in modern France.

I played again as Castile, and had next to no problem with France. France will not attack you early, so I took this time to establish a foothold in Northern Africa, then conquered Portugal and Aragon. I allowed England and France to fight over Navarre until I gained strength. I had enough income to defend the rather small French border at this point, so set my sights on the Americas.

On preview, Aragon is a problem, but I’ve never seen France attack them. Rather, I found that France tends to ally with Aragon. However, if you can ally with England, I found that wars with France/Aragon tended to take place on their turf.

I then played as Burgundy, so had to keep my eye on France through the whole game. Again, while France was concentrating on the southern areas, I was able to expand East, concentrating on allying with or subjugating the HR Elector states. France was a pest in this time, but never an existential threat. Once elected Holy Roman Emperor, France was fairly easily subdued.

5

I did not get HTTT simply because I stopped playing EU3. I was tired of editing the save game files to swap the LUCK=YES around so that the large countries were not unstoppable. I was also disappointed with the fact that gaining BADBOY (a bad reputation) was so easy yet almost impossible to lose for the player but other countries could declare was with no causus belli at will.

That being said, if the expansion packs help out at all with that, I may give it another try. I did like the game especially when I could create events (I could never get Granada to reform the Umayyad Caliphate though) and I could never get a good Crusade event written.

6

I remember I had a “huh, well this sucks moment.”

Early in the game France was in a royal marriage with Castille. And then France diplo-annexed them.

7

Well, I’m back in, and playing around with HttT. It did seem to makem a number of minor improvements, including being able to get a good advisor off Cultural Tradition when there was one specific type I needed. I ahve been able to take over Aragon (I wanted to leave them and form a personal Union, but they were kinda dicks. I now want to expand into Portugal, and I’m just waiting for my BadBoy to go away.

What really anoys me is that they don’t put in enough peaceful ways to accomplish yours goals. I like a good war, too, but war is way too certain. If I go to war, I know I can probably do what I want. But diplomacy is slow, unsure, expensive, and random. I usually want an army or two ready to go in case I get attacked, so I already have my military resources at the ready. Diplo, however, takes even more money off the top, and is a lot slower and more uncertain.

I am trying to keep Royal Marriages ready, while checking every year to try and Claim Thrones on any new Monarchs. That can give you a personal union. If I get Portugal, it’s fantastic (b/c I can colonize easily from their islands). If I get France, it’s incredible (but this is unlikely). If I get Milan, I shall leap for joy, because it’s a rich area with tons of Universities.

8

Has anyone checked out Divine Wind yet?

9

Weirdness: I am loving Heir to the Throne.

Holy crap, with the right marriages, and the right throne-claiming, and the right Personal Unions, I just got myself inheritance of both England and Naples. I conquered and converted all of Morroco and Aragon, plus tiny Navarre. In about 40 years, I’ll finally be able to form Spain.

I am rolling money and men, and just conquered the Creek in NorthAm. It’s 1480-something, and it’s kinda hilarious to me. The only problem thus far is that I haven’t been able to knock the Portuguese entirely out of the colonization running, as they still have Madeira (but I hold the Azores and Canaries), and my tech is expensive. Still, I have all the cash I require. If I can take most of the coasts by 1600, I think I pretty much win. I’ll go for the usual targets: The Aztecs, milking the Inca for cash, Filling out the non-coasts of North and South America.

Now, I do have to worry about the small Irish states. I’ve seen them go crazy colonizing before, and it really, really annoys me. England had a lot of territory, but oddly never bothered the Irish or Scots. The French were reduced almost to a minor, but managed to take some turf back fom Normandy. I may have to give them another smack, but it’s the friggin Austrians who are my main rival for Continental power. With the Imperial Throne, they have a ton of units.

Then again, I think I can join the HRE and potentially turn it into a modern state, granting me the entire thing, if I can become Emperor and get enough Authority. Sounds like fun!

10

Bumpity bump. I’ve just started trying out Europa Universalis, having bought the complete set (everything through Divine Wind) via a Steam sale.

And I can’t figure out how to get started.

I’m beginning by playing France, since it’s supposed to be a very easy starting nation. I’ve played through all the tutorials. But what should I do in the first few days? Weeks? Months?

I have a long-term goal of annexing Orleans, but it looks to me like that’ll take at least ten years to accomplish, unless I’m misreading the help. Individual provinces have their own goals, but I don’t have enough manpower to accomplish any of them yet.

11

My advice for your first game is: don’t play France

While France is a powerful country (though nothing like the beast it was in In Nomine) it’s also a complex one that needs some handling early on.

The simplest Great Power in the 1399 start is probably Castile. Make friends with Portugal and Aragon and beat up on Granada. Then decide if you want to subjugate one of your Iberian neighbours or stay friends with both of them while you pick up the valuable North African provinces around Tangiers (don’t bother going inland, it’s worthless). Before 1500 you should be able to colonise and the New World beckons.

If you want a quiet game with a less overwhelming country, play Portugal, get good relations with Castile and spend the rest of the game trading and colonising.

If you want to win an empire by the sword, play Poland (or Lithuania, but I think they start in a union under Poland), take down Mazovia and the Teutons, then see how far you can get into Russia.

If you want to learn politics, play Austria, Bohemia or Brandenburg and try to unite the HRE.

If you want to handle vassals, play Denmark and unite Scandinavia.

Then go back and try the country that does all of these at once.

Have fun!

12

France is a neat one to do but it gets a little tricky. First off understand that you have 400 odd years so pause the game, sit back, sip some beer/wine/scotch and relax.

France is a potential monster and in 1399 quite strong from a man power perspective. That’s key. You will be building armies and smacking people around.

So head over to your budget screen and get your stability back up to 3.
Check for decent advisers - Production/Government and Stability are all good advisers to look for.
Before adjusting policy sliders make sure you have 2 decent armies - 1 in the north and 1 in the south. That way any revolts that occur can be mopped up without causing too many difficulties.
Go check out your missions - you don’t have to do them, but France gets a bunch that allows it to grow without some stability hits when you annex a province like Orleans.
Buy a tapestry and get some cultural points going.

If you’re fighting England in the early to mid 1400s it will drag on and on and on, especially if you don’t have a fleet. Stay stable, own their continental provinces and pull your troops back. England will land an army and you move to smash it. Repeat over and over again. If a Welsh or Cornish revolt breaks out or Scotland rebels even better.

I’d also suggest checking the Country Guides paradoxian.org - contact with domain owner | Epik.com

13

Actually a good starter country is Portugal. You’re stuck way the hell out of the firing line of continental Europe. Become an ally of Castile and stay that way as long as possible. Meanwhile dump all of your money into government and trade, get Quest for the New World in the 1450s, follow up on the exploration missions, and head for South America.

14

Good advice–but I’m literally wondering what to do initially, like when the game starts. I’d love to try playing an economic powerhouse without a lot of fighting; what country would be best for that? I understand that I should probably send merchants to trade centers, but how do I figure out which ones to go to?

I’ll try my next game with Castile.

15

Hence Portugal - few deadly wars assuming you stay on Castile’s side and your focus would be exclusively colonization and trade.

So off the bat get a royal marriage with Castile, drop your army and navy maintenance to the lower end of the range, buy a government/trade/naval research adviser, pour all your money into stability, get an alliance with Castile and then pour your money into government and trade technologies.

If you own a Trade center send your people there.

16

Okay, working on this–but my prestige is dropping precipitously. By the second year (1401), it’s at -43%. Do I worry?

17

-43% in 2 years? Did you reject an English call to arms?

Just started a Normal/Normal with Random “lucky” powers as Portugal.

pause

1399- asked for RM with Castile, trying to get stability from +1 to +3, dropped naval maintenance to 0% (now running at -2.4 a month), hired a 2 star government and 1 star trade guy.

Lucked out - 1st mission is Royal Marriage with Castile (+1 stability).

unpause

ok 1 month in and we got the RM and England is asking for help with France

I have some time (15th of November) to reply so I wait and Castile asks for an alliance - I accept and then reject the English call to arms. Prestige drops to -23. That’s fine I can make that back up and we’re really just starting here.

Ok so Castile is warring with Grenada, Algiers, Morocco and Tunisia therefore now that I’m an ally I declare war on Grenada using an Alliance CB (no stability hit) and I hit war taxes.

I’m going to recruit 2 cavalry units to flesh out my army - Castile is my ally and can easily handle the war we’re engaged in.

March and I’m at +3 stability so it’s time to start shifting to getting out colonizing before anyone else (by the way I have a new mission called Conquer Tangiers which I will gladly ignore for the next 30 odd years).

I’ve now moved my budget sliders to pure government tech and am running at -3.9 a month (war taxes still in effect) with a year over year increase of 66. With a decent army I shift to centralize my country and 6 rebels pop up. I also commission a tapestry since i have the money and a magistrate.

From here on out I’ll focus on government/trade research, I’ll aid Castile as much as possible and start pulling money from Lisbon’s trade center.

18

Hmm…I accepted their call to arms, but I didn’t help them out at all; does that lead to a prestige hit? (They were going after some stupid county in Ireland or something, and I didn’t want to have to figure out naval transport as my first action in the game). Then I attacked some Moroccan boats around my border and lost.

I noticed that you didn’t adjust your sliders–is that right? The decentralization slider seemed to be the only one worth doing, and I did that and got some minor benefit–I think my people are happier to be conscripted now or something.

19

I had my budget sliders set to zero except for stability, hence the -3.9 per month number. It meant I was making, year over year, 15-20 gold, assuming I spend absolutely nothing. However, war taxes up that yearly amount to 40-60 hence my declaration of war on Morocco once I was allied with Castile. Once stability reached +3 I dropped everything except Government to 0. Some people may want to split the budget between Government and Trade - it’ll all depend on your advisers and what you want to do.

Once stability is up to +3 I then adjusted my policy slider Centralized/Decentralized to the left (centralize) to both up control, taxes and research. It will either cause a drop in stability or a rebellion. In my case I had a 6 rebel army I chased about for a few months. Once they were cleaned up I dropped my army maintenance to 50% and sat back and waited. I did notice Castile wandering all over North Africa so I established a white peace before the Moroccan alliance could focus only on me. Then I sat back and let the months roll by.

Prestige will always regress to 0 but it can influence setting up alliances and marriages - that was why I jumped at Castile’s offer before rejecting England’s.

England will kick off wars in Ireland and Europe. If you want to avoid that you need to remove yourself from that entanglement. The last thing you need is direct resources into far off wars when you’re trying to win a tech race to the New World. Either do that by breaking the alliance or by rejecting a call to arms.

20

Hmm…I also didn’t realize that, while the first government research gets you a new idea, it’s a long time (I think) before you get another one. I took a trade-based new idea, something like +10% compete chance. I think I’ll start over & not take an idea until I’ve researched both gov’t and trade, so I can use my colonists.

Speaking of which, I spend most of my time with maxed-out spies, missionaries, and colonists, and a good portion of my time with maxed-out diplomats and magistrates, and am constantly sending off merchants to replace ones that (I think) got kicked out of their markets. Is this how it should be, or is there a better use I can be making of my people?