I’m not “hating Americans”. I’m lamenting the indisputable fact that European intelligence agencies just can’t trust the US and their administration any more. And we’ll all suffer from that.
I live in a small European country and I’m getting really tired of telling you you don’t know what you’re talking about.
As others have implied above, it’s not all about the Benjamins:
The relationship is under scrupulous reconsideration, and for good reason.
Europe was never an equal partner with the US. The Cold War was between two superpowers, the US and the USSR. The point of investing in defence of European countries was to prevent more of them falling into the Soviet sphere of influence. The USSR invested in defence of its satellite states for the same reason.
Now the Cold War is over, and it’s questionable how much of that rationale still applies. Russia is a threat to Europe, but it’s more reasonable to expect the continent to see to its own defence, especially now the EU exists to coordinate it. And Trump is an isolationist and doesn’t seem to care about US influence internationally.
I’m sorry you feel the need to school me.
WE KNOW, you live in a small country. You tell us, all the time.
I’m proud its working for you.
Where are you? Luxembourg? Hmm.
I presume I’m one of those furriners you’re talking about.
Newsflash: It’s true. A lot of us used to have a lot of fondness for the U.S. Partly due to your contributions during WW2 and the Marshall aid after that. But since Bush 2, your administrations have seriously squandered that credit.
Well, that’s what we’re counting on now: We can’t trust that the US will be a reliable ally anymore. Neither can we share intelligence with you, because we can’t trust that it won’t be compromised. We can’t even trust that you won’t initiate aggressions (as in the Greenland aquisition case)
It’s a completely new paradigm.
As a Canadian, I get resentment about insufficient defence spending, and I would honestly have no problem if Obama or Biden (or Harris if that had been the case), at some defence forum stood up and said something along the lines of:
“We [the US] established a post-WW II status quo in which we have become the world’s police and in which other nations have possibly been too dependent on us. As we are currently undergoing something approaching a deficit crisis [or whatever], I am very sorry to announce that we will have to cut back and that you will have to increase your spending accordingly. That’s not to say that we are turning our backs on the free world and, to the extent possible and as necessary, we will support you just as we know that you will collectively continue to support us.” or something.
It’s not just the statement of those true facts that are problematic; it’s also that the US has become untrustworthy, aggressive and offensive, to the extent that they can now be considered a threat.
Pretty sure that, in this instance, the person you’re talking to is a Brit 
It doesn’t matter to anyone but those dissenters if half the country (assuming that was true) doesn’t support his policies; what matters is that those policies are implemented. And that the world can’t trust the US to keep its word, adhere to treaties or maintain a course for more than 4 years.
Look-If you take the good, you gotta take the bad. You have to take them both, 'cause that’s the facts of life.
I likey. ^^
Especially when that half that opposes Trump doesn’t do anything except downplay the obvious danger Trump’s America poses.
American dissenters who hear that the rest of the world hates America and whose first concern is that they, personally, have been unfairly accused are very much a part of the problem.
If so, I apologize to @Demontree.
Substitute “you” with “the US admin” and my argument stands.
Excellent phrasing. Had a Democratic President or even a normal Republican one said something to this effect, it would be hard to argue against it from almost anywhere on the mainstream political spectrum. It’s the belligerence coming from a bleating ignoramus and his coterie of slavish looneytune maniacs that spoils other countries’ appetites to hear it.
I’m very sorry if you feel attacked by our distrust in your current administration and their fuckups.
Unless you voted for them, that is. Then feel free to feel attacked.
Agreed, though from my perspective the last time America looked reasonably good to the world was the short-lived Kennedy era. Kennedy was smart and articulate, he and Jackie were regarded as genuine American royalty, and the White House was unironically nicknamed “Camelot” as a mark of respect and admiration.
But the Kennedy administration was far from perfect. There was the disastrous attempt at the Bay of Pigs to undo the Cuban revolution, and the Cuban missile crisis very nearly plunged the world into nuclear war. Nevertheless, the history of American federal politics has been mostly a downward spiral, with each new Congress and administration worse than the preceding one, with only a few bright spots in between. And no one – not even a virulent Trump hater like myself – could ever have imagined it being as horrifically bad and dangerous as it is now.
You may not deserve it, but from an international perspective you’re inevitably perceived as part of a collective that enabled this horrific fascist regime that is a threat to the world order and to democracies everywhere, including your own. Even if you weren’t part of the majority that voted for it, you might be part of a different (and often even larger) majority that over the years voted in a spineless Congress that is enabling Trump, in defiance of its fundamental role in the system of checks and balances intended precisely to prevent tyranny from the executive branch.
As individuals – say, American tourists abroad – the problem they have is although they might be nice people, statistically they’re far more likely than tourists from most other nations to be the kind of rude, ignorant, and obnoxious rednecks who typify the stereotype of the Ugly American. And so they’re viewed with suspicion. It doesn’t help that they’re now tainted with the stigma of being citizens of a country that is currently hostile to virtually the entire world (except Russia) and is being run by a demented, power-mad lunatic.
As a Canadian, my deep appreciation for the peaceful, compassionate, and prosperous society I live in has now been supplanted by unease about the madman running your government almost without any restraints, and what this might mean for our economy and maybe even our basic autonomy.
This.
Because firstly yes it’s important to see US military defence in that context; not as some altruistic thing aimed at defending Europe but largely about trying to be the world’s strongest superpower and restraining Russia.
Also note that many of the US bases are paid for by the host countries; billions of dollars a year. It’s not the full cost of running those bases, but it’s still a better deal for the US than stationing all those soldiers in the US. I’m not saying it’s necessarily the best deal all factors considered, just adding extra info.
And in terms of going forwards, I agree it’s better for all if Europe and other allies are more self-sufficient in defence.
Though even there there’s nuance. Should every US ally that formerly relied upon the US nuclear umbrella now pursue their own nuclear weapons? Will we all be safer in that world?
I can readily live with the opprobrium when, if, and – in the current situation – because it’s so readily justified.
“We love America just as much as they do. But in a different way. You see, they love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad and helping your loved one grow.”
–Al Franken
Nothing ever gets better by pounding our chests, unfurling the US flag, and humming along with Kate Smith.
Nothing good about the USA ever came to be because of the “American Exceptionalism” crowd.
Rather, it’s in spite of them.