> Here you go (prepare for an insight into the British psyche)
>
> http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=292094
>
> on the mexican food thing: I don’t know if I could actually tell when I’d had good
> mexican food, as I have no real benchmark, also it ain’t cheap - the nearest
> place to me (Cactus Blue - Fulham rd) is about £50 a head. I’m not paying that
> for mince and crisps.
I’ve really got to suspect that you’ve never had good Mexican food. My experience in the U.K. (living there 1987 to 1990, plus six vacations there since) is that there isn’t any good Mexican food in the U.K. And there’s certainly no reason for a meal to cost fifty pounds. Good Mexican food in the U.S. is $12 to $15 a person (for the meal, I mean, but if you’re counting drinking a lot of beer, that’s extra). Given that the conversion rate is 1.92 dollars to the pound and that meals cost 40% more than in the U.K. than in the U.S. (for whatever reason), there’s still no reason for a good Mexican meal to cost more than 15 pounds. So when you say:
> In the UK it would have to take on the curry - and that’s like me taking on
> Lennox Lewis - there’s only one winner. (I can’t overstate how much we love
> our rubies)
I think that the only reason that this is true is that no one has ever tried to sell good Mexican food in the U.K. To some degree, Mexican (or at least Tex-Mex) food in the U.S. serves somewhat of the same purpose as Indian in the U.K. - as late night cheap food. The other evening I was berating some people in my office for eating Taco Bell food. That’s not a good example of Mexican food, not even compared to some other fast-food Mexican. Chipotle and Baja Fresh are at least acceptable fast-food Mexican. They told me that it’s because there’s a Taco Bell nearby that’s open to 3:00 AM. The interesting thing is one of the people eating the Taco Bell food was of Indian ancestry.
Thanks for all of the replies. The actual restaurant operation and food preparation, especially Mexican, is something we have plenty of experience with. The idea (daydream?) is to introduce authentic Mexican food, no Tex-Mex, and food that is beyond the usual tacos, enchiladas, tostadas etc ( what’s termed antojitos in Mexico) and offer some other more elaborate preparations including seafood, moles and pipian, barbacoa, birria, cochinita pibil etc. And of course tacos, enchiladas etc. but that are somewhat different than what you typically find in US Mexican restaurants.
This would be a direct, Mexico to Europe transition.
There are some Tex-Mex and Mexican restaurants that appear to be trying harder, but I’ve no idea how authentic they are - places like Santa Fe in Islington, London.
Cool. I love Mexican food, both the Mexican and California varieties. Not so wild about Tex-Mex, something just seems “wrong” with it. Given what you’re trying I’d aim for some place in or near more “trendy” spots, e.g., places where young are open to different experiences. A nice decor and decent beer list would certainly help.
The best Indian food I’ve had outside of India was at a little hole-in-the-wall restaurant in Montpellier. It was run by this Indian fellow who made the food as spicy as you wanted it to be. I liked it, the Indian people I was with liked it, and the restaurant seemed to good business among the non-Indian folks as well.
Give it a go, CBEscapee. I’m betting mole dishes especially would be a smash with new palates. I predict your restaurant would be a trendy success. (I’m getting a little hungry just from reading your last post.)
I’m starting to think the best bet and more lucrative operation for the European market would be an authentic taqueria stall/shopfront open late (low overhead, reasonable prices). A small place with a limited menu of super high quality authentic carnitas and other mexican street food. Something along the lines of what you might actually find in a mexican city center/marketplace… Translate that to the european city centers and markets. Offer mexican beer and bebidos…I’m sure it would have a better chance than the investment and cost of a 4 star mexican restaurant.
Heh…I really liked the movie “The Van” with Colm Meaney, so all with a grain of salt. I also have a dream to open some small place…develop a reputation for the best food in some underdeveloped niche at the best prices. No nonsense…the food will be the hook and bring em back whether I’m selling it from the gutter or a palace.
That was one of my favorite parts of my month in Germany last summer, plentiful Kebab Hauses. Amsterdam too for that matter.
I declined to visit the one Mexican restaurant in Langen, a little burg south of Frankfurt, and wish I had eaten there to make a comparison. I live in Southern Arizona and I’m of half Mexican descent so IMO half the restaurants here are not real Mexican food. It was my observation that most German food isn’t spicy. Certainly not unappealingly bland, I really liked it. Oddly enough it even extened to Indian food. One of the developers arranged a big dinner for us to all go out for real Indian cuisine. We had a large group so we managed to get one of just about everything on the menu and almost none of it was remotely spicy. The only spicy item was a sauce/paste made of tamarind seed which I compared to mild salsa AFA heat goes.
Frankfurt is lousy with Thai restaurants and imbisses. You can get spicy food at these, but unless you ask for it scharf then it’s more likely to be dulled down a lot. Might be similar at Indian restaurants in Germany. I’m not sure how much this holds to other areas (I’ve had Thai in Hanover and Munich, and recall getting it spicy enough for me there).
If anyone has a mind to open a taqueria-imbiss in Germany, then next year might be a good time to do it. I imagine that come 2006 and the World Cup that all thing foreign could be quite popular, particularly in the host cities: Berlin, Frankfurt, Hannover, Gelsenkirchen, Köln, Leipzig, Kaiserslautern, Nürnberg, Stuttgart, München.
I’ve been to a UK Mexican restaurant or two over the years, and they can be best summed up as ‘the art of Mexican microwave’. And I’m a guy who finds anything more than the mildest curry a bum-burner.
I think that a mexican restaurant is really not the brightest idea. Here’s why:
Firstly what level are you pitching at? if you’re aiming for the post-pub crowd you’re taking on Indian, Chinese and kebabs (which are probably the closest equivalent - spicy take away food). You are taking on generations of tradition and are going to need something over and above god food to lever yourself into that market.
Secondly, as has been stated, most mexican food in Europe is crap. That means we think that mexican food is crap. That’s a huge barrier to overcome.
Thirdly; remember that most “ethnic” restaurants are family businesses and as such have a lower cost base than you’re going to have. You’re going to be looking for skilled kitchen staff and casual staff such as waiters and you’re going to have to pay the going rate.
And finally there is an image problem with mexico. When we think of india we get; taj mahal, the Raj, elephants etc. China: Great wall; forbidden city, pottery. Mexico? Cheech and Chong if you’re lucky - it’s not somewhere we have a very positive image of.
What we do have quite a few of (in London at least - God alone knows about the provinces - they still eat tripe there) are “Argentinian” restaurants that sell very good meat - mainly steaks and charge appropriately. (about £40 a head maybe more, depending on drinks etc). There are at least half a dozen of these near me. Maybe an upmarket place might stand a chance?
I’ve been to several Mexican restaurants in Germany. They seem pretty popular and crowded. Food’s not that great though. At least not really very authentic tasting. But at least they like the idea they’re eating Mexican food.
I’m used to the little out of the way Ma & Pa places we have in California where you get the really good, authentic cooking. So I think I’m a decent judge.
When you say “we” I hope you aren’t speaking for many Europeans. I would think they wouldn´t form an opinion of another country based on American movies made by a couple of clowns that haven’t the slightest thing to do with Mexico. I’ve always thought Europe as a place with a sophisticated populace.
Ever heard of the Mayan or Aztec civilizations? Ever eaten corn? chocolate?avocados? tomatos? or chiles? Where did the heat in Thai or Indian cuisine come from? How about cities that date from the 1500’s? The country with the most diverse flora and fauna in the world?
> Firstly what level are you pitching at? if you’re aiming for the post-pub crowd
> you’re taking on Indian, Chinese and kebabs (which are probably the closest
> equivalent - spicy take away food). You are taking on generations of tradition
> and are going to need something over and above god food to lever yourself
> into that market.
>
> Secondly, as has been stated, most mexican food in Europe is crap. That means
> we think that mexican food is crap. That’s a huge barrier to overcome.
>
> Thirdly; remember that most “ethnic” restaurants are family businesses and as
> such have a lower cost base than you’re going to have. You’re going to be
> looking for skilled kitchen staff and casual staff such as waiters and you’re going
> to have to pay the going rate.
>
> And finally there is an image problem with mexico. When we think of india we
> get; taj mahal, the Raj, elephants etc. China: Great wall; forbidden city, pottery.
> Mexico? Cheech and Chong if you’re lucky - it’s not somewhere we have a very
> positive image of.
First of all, Chong is a Canadian of part Chinese and part European descent. Cheech is an American of Hispanic descent. I don’t see what either of them has to do with Mexico.
Second, you keep make these arguments which seem to say nothing except “This is what British taste is like now, and of course it could never change.” I know a little about how fast taste can change. I remember what American restaurants were like thirty-five years ago. In much of the U.S., pizza was considered exotic. You would have to go into the Little Italy section of some big cities to get anything close to decent pizza. (A coworker tells me that even in New York City during the 1950’s one had to go to an Italian neighborhood there if one wanted to eat pizza.) The only other Italian item that nearly anyone could name was spaghetti, and they only rarely ate it. Chinese food was mostly limited to Chinatown sections of big cities. Mexican food, even Tex-Mex items like tacos, were rare outside some regions of the U.S. with large Hispanic populations, and even there non-Hispanics usually didn’t eat it.
Back then, the only foreign restaurant that might be acceptable for non-casual dining was French, but not that many people had even tried that. All the ethnic dining choices that I now eat without considering them even slightly unusual - Thai, Greek, Ethopian, Middle Eastern, Indian, Jamaican, etc. - were considered so weird thirty-five years ago that if you had told most people then that you were going to such a restaurant, they would have considered you insane. As bad as American fast-food restaurants like McDonalds look today, the reason that they caught on so fast was that thirty-five years ago they were often better than anything else you could get in many American towns. Tastes can change faster than you think.
True enough tastes can change - I can remember when there was only one McDonalds in the whole of the UK - and going there was quite a treat. Kebabs weren’t that common either.
I just think that the market is pretty saturated and given that about 70% of restaurants don’t make it into their second year you could do better than take on something as entrenched as curry (it really is a part of life here). Just an opinion. No more no less. However; in the real world I work in venture capital and I can tell you that in the UK at least you would find getting funding for a mexican restaurant pretty tough unless you had a large equity to put down. (Actually this is true of almost all restaurants - even McDonalds is now considered to be a property company with a subsiduary that sells beefburgers)
A couple of minor points: I gather that the rate of closure of restaurants within their first year is approximately the same in the U.S. I apologize that I don’t know the exact figure. McDonalds is no longer the most common restaurant in the U.S. Several years ago, Subway passed them in terms of number of restaurants within the U.S.
I am told by people who should know that the closure rate is 70% in 18 months. That’s because loads of people who have eaten in restaurants think that running one would be fun - they aren’t cut out for it.
Even McDonalds franchises here are closing down. Although them bloody awful subway franchises are all over London like a rash.