Not sure I have, really. Well, a part of me has often thought there ought to be a minimal competence test for voting, but I realize the countless problems with that. But I was moved to start this thread by a conversation my wife and I had w/ someone yesterday.
We were at the home of a couple we have long been close friends with. The woman’s 90-yr-old mother lives w/ them. We know her well and have always liked and respected her, tho we perceive she is not as sharp as she once was. The old lady was talking about needing to get a mail-in ballot. Her daughter jokingly said, “Well it depends - who are you going to vote for.” (Yeah - that is a little problematic, if I thought the dtr would disenfranchise her mom.)
The old lady proceeded to say that she would never vote for a woman -because they just don’t have what it takes to be leaders. (I know that she also does not approve of woman doctors.) My wife said, “What about Angela Merkel?” The old lady responded, “Who’s that? I don’t read the news.” But she was certain about how she felt, and adamant that she should be able to vote reflecting those feelings.
I was surprised at how much it bothered me to hear (what I consider) such ignorance. But I recognize that in our system EVERYONE is entited to vote how they wish - for whatever - or no - reason.
Wondered if any of you experienced situations in which you reacted strongly to someone’s expressed voting preference, thinking they ought not be allowed to vote.
On a kind of related issue, I couldn’t remember ever hearing someone say that their own race/gender/ethnicity/etc was less capable in some respect. Wonder if she thinks women should be paid less for the same work? Does she believe a woman’s place is in the home?
I wanted to attribute it to her age and the times that she was raised, but I know that my mother, and my wife’s mother certainly did not feel the same.
I’m OK with even the ignorant voting, it is what the US system is about.
However, I do get really annoyed at people that will chime in and debate on politics, but then say they don’t bother to vote. If you don’t vote, I don’t want to hear your opinion about the election.
Not US, obviously, but I worked with a guy who I actually talked out of voting in the British EU membership referendum. He’d just turned 18 and was all ‘Yay, I’m an adult now, I can do adult things like vote!’ but said he wasn’t really sure about some things about it. This was the day before the vote, when we were chatting.
I’m not quite sure what I expected, as he was notoriously oblivious to, well, everything, but question one was ‘Is Europe a country?’ and question two was ‘What happens if we join?’
I worked in a nursing home whose residents were developmentally disabled, some more severely than others (many could read, for example, while others were borderline vegetative). When the election rolled around, I asked my boss about the process of getting the residents either to the polls or mail-in ballots. He looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears and said that no one in that facility had voted since it opened in the 70s.
So I set about to making phone calls to Sangamon County election officials, seeing if they had a process for bringing the voting machines to nursing homes (they did and they do). While I had the (reluctant) blessing of my boss and his boss, the hostility I got from some of the residents’ guardians was downright palpable. “Why should Freddy vote?” Um, because he’s an American citizen and it’s his fucking right, that’s why.
Sorry, but if you can say the word “yes” when I ask you “Do you want to vote?” then you should be allowed to vote. End of story.
It wasn’t a real election of leaders, but a vote within a smaller community to name the person who best embodied the principles of that group. In other words, it didn’t really mean anything. But one person told me “I voted for X because she’s so sophisticated.” I expect a similar mindset exists in elections that matter - like those who vote because of a person’s looks or where the candidate was born or what kind of dogs they have. People like that should stick to voting for American Idol and leave the hard decisions to those who care enough to be informed.
Or is that unAmerican of me? Everyone has the right to be stupid, yes?
My own grandmother felt that way too - but she turned 90 thirty-five years ago and attitudes like that were more common among people who came of age around the turn of the twentieth century. She also went a step further and didn’t think women should vote either.
I would like to ban single subject voters. That is, people who vote only because of gun rights, anti-abortion, etc.
But that’s the point. Everyone’s allowed one vote. I would like to see all states aligned regarding whether a person convicted of a felony is permitted to vote or not. In some states a person who is serving time for committing a felony is still entitled to vote.
I’ve known many people I thought so ignorant or clueless that they shouldn’t vote. But as HeyHomie says “…if you can say the word “yes” when I ask you “Do you want to vote?” then you should be allowed to vote.”
Right on.
I also agree with What_exit, if you don’t vote I don’t want to hear your political views or your comments about excessive taxes.
I have a friend who occasionally smacks his head and jokes, “The whole country went to hell when we let [fill in the blank as to race, ethnic or national group, or gender] vote!”
I’ve known some poorly-informed, willfully ignorant and/or stoopid people who really wouldn’t be voting in a perfect world, but it’s not a perfect world, and they’re just as entitled to vote as the most well-informed, brilliant people. That’s how democracy works.
I’m glad you phrased it that way. I’ve actually heard people say, “If you don’t vote, you don’t have the right to complain,” which is obviously untrue. There’s still a First Amendment, last time I checked.
Whenever I think of other broad categories that I might want to restrict (the insane, the senile, the criminal), I run into the problem of correctly identifying these people, and specifically the biases of the people who might be applying the labels. If I say insane people can’t vote, then malicious people might try to get a disproportionate number of women labeled as insane. If I say criminals can’t vote, people might try to get a disproportionate number of black people incarcerated.
Age, at least, can be assessed fairly objectively. (It’d be better if we were disqualifying based on immaturity, but that, again, can’t be objectively assessed.)
My grandmother, in her nineties, also believes women should not be in leadership roles. Abortion is her one issue (and, “Is he a Christian?” but of course they all say that, so…) She voted for Trump, and although she later had misgivings, I have no doubt that she will again. Particularly because she lives with my other family members who are Trumpists. Dinsdale, I might think you had been to visit my grandma, except she doesn’t have the mental wherewithal to hold such a long conversation without it looping back to the beginning again. But she can vote.
No, I have not known anyone who I thought that about. At the risk of sounding like Oliver Douglas making one of his impassioned speeches while patriotic music played in the background (look it up), I believe in Democracy, and I believe that in order to have a true Democracy we should ensure everyone can vote. And we should work to make voting universally easy, and enfranchisement consistently applied.
Even someone with reduced mental capacity who requires guidance in the process and decides based on who looks most like their cherished stuffed duck toy. (In the past I have joked that even idiots deserve representation - and here we are!)
I swore the same oath and I’m not saying there should be some sort of test for voters. But in my personal opinion, some people, merely by voting, make a mockery of the process. Not a lot we can do about it, but I don’t have to like it. And I believe the oath protects my right to express that opinion.
It does and I don’t love all of them voting, I just acknowledge and support they have the right in our system. You have the right to your opinion without question. Better idiots and the ignorant voting than any sort of voter suppression.
Besides, I was affirming that “Everyone has the right to be stupid, yes?”
Looks like I’m the odd man out (even tho I admit any alternative is likely at least as problematic.)
I could imagine supporting either MANDATORY voting, or some sort of testing - requiring SOMETHING more than the ability to express a desire to vote when asked. The stupid old lady in my OP would likely pass any such test I would suggest.
I’ve encountered a few people in my life who literally did not know who the current President was, and they werent with dementia or living in an isolated shack in the middle of the woods, they just literally never paid any attention to the news. Maybe those people probably shouldn’t vote (but then again obviously they probably won’t be already)
