Everest: Just Don't Do It

[octopus]

@Biotop

I agree consenting adults can do what they want. But surely you can see how the huge cluster of people in that very dangerous situation using locals whose economic situation makes them vulnerable to exploitation might need some sort of oversight. 400 people on the summit this month? Wow. I am sure all those competing trekking outfits from different nationalities can all work it out peacefully when the time comes to see who goes up next.

Yeah. I was a bit ignorant as to how severe altitude sickness was at that elevation. After a bit of reading Everest is more risky than I thought.

[Lemur866]

Change that to “coconut oil” and yeah, people really do dump it in their tea.

Coconuts do not grow in Nepal.

[Broomstick]

@Nava

You put olive oil in your tea?

No, I don’t - nor am I Nepalese!

I am a barbarian Yankee and add sugar but no milk.

@Azeotrope

I think she’s saying that since olives don’t grow in Nepal, if you need an energy boost from fat you’re stuck with yak butter.

^ This.

[Broomstick]

@Broomstick

At least the Sherpas have some very practical reasons for taking on the work - the money they earn in just a few seasons on Everest can make an enormous difference to their families, enabling them to educate their children, purchase health care, get the capital to start another business with less risk… Relatively speaking, they’re potentially getting a huge payoff.

@Gyrate

I’m not sure it’s worth the risk level, though, and Norbu Tenzing says that things have to change - not that no one should climb, but there are too many people attempting it who don’t understand the risks and are endangering themselves and the Sherpas as a result.

He has a valid point and crowding certainly changes the equation. If Nepal’s overall economy was wealthier there would be less incentive to take such risks. And, as noted, the Sherpas and Nepalese would be less vulnerable to exploitation.

That said, what constitutes “acceptable risk” for First Worlders is not always such for people in the third world and vice-versa. I try to keep an open mind about such things.

@octopus

Perhaps this is a silly question, but don’t climbers use oxygen in the ascent? Is the altitude sickness from only using it periodically? With the consequences being what they are you’d think that’d be a priority.

It’s not just a matter of having oxygen, it’s also a matter of atmospheric pressure. We evolved to live under more or less sea level density of air. When the air gets thin enough it not only contains less oxygen per volume but our lungs are less efficient at gas exchange, too. There is an altitude at which breathing even 100% oxygen is useless because there is insufficient air pressure for the exchange of gases in the human lung and bloodstream. Everest isn’t quite that high, but it’s high enough that in the “death zone” your lungs and respiratory systems no longer function well enough to adequately oxygenate your body. Hence, “death zone” because eventually you’ll die if you stay there long enough, even on 100% oxygen. Your metabolism is slowly suffocating.

Because we’re all slightly different some people will be affected more rapidly than others, hence why some people have managed to summit Everest without supplemental oxygen and some die even with oxygen. Existence in that environment is so marginal that those individual variations, normally never noticed in day to day existence, are the difference between life and death.

[TroutMan]

Climbers also aren’t using enough oxygen to mimic sea level or even close to that. As you surmise, they use it only periodically. Carrying up enough oxygen for full-time use simply isn’t possible.

It’s supplemental oxygen, not replacement.

[Spiderman]

@octopus

Perhaps this is a silly question, but don’t climbers use oxygen in the ascent? Is the altitude sickness from only using it periodically? With the consequences being what they are you’d think that’d be a priority.

1. Cost. Both $ & effort to have O2 cylinders lugged up to the position that they’ll be needed in, along with being able to find them days after prepositioning when more snow has fallen to cover them.

2. A set of brass ones syndrome.

[Chihuahua]

@Biotop

Latest news is that two more climbers are missing and 30 people are sick near the summit.

Some 400 people have made it to the top this month alone. A bit crowded, wouldn’t you say?

From what I’ve heard, this is part of the problem.

[Turek]

@Lemur866

Coconuts do not grow in Nepal.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

[PunditLisa]

I read the most recent articles with dismay. I honestly don’t feel very sorry for those who die in the quest anymore, because they are aware that the odds are terrible.

[Tamerlane]

Ehhhh…redacted.

[Ken001]

Migrate? Not at all but the Himalayan swallow is very partial to a coconut and may journey to more tropical climes to seize upon the delicious treat.

Edit: dang. Ninjad

[Whiskey_Dickens]

Watching Dopers decry the value of climbing Everest is like listening to my unemployed friend talk about what a nuisance it would be to date a supermodel.

Folks, no one’s going to put a gun to your head and force you to die on Everest. To each their own, mind your own business.

[Ken001]

@octopus

Perhaps this is a silly question, but don’t climbers use oxygen in the ascent? Is the altitude sickness from only using it periodically?

Broomstick has already covered this: just a note to say that the Dutchman Eric Arnold had oxygen but he still died.

[Spiderman]

@Turek

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Not at all. They could be carried.

[nearwildheaven]

@chizzuk

She had done Aconcagua but that’s a full 6000m shorter than Everest.

Did you mean 6,000 feet?

[Broomstick]

@Ken001

Broomstick has already covered this: just a note to say that the Dutchman Eric Arnold had oxygen but he still died.

To further illustrate the point - I once had a coworker who suffered a stroke due to severe altitude sickness… in Colorado. Obviously a bit of an outlier, being far more vulnerable than average, but you don’t have to go to Nepal or Tibet to suffer serious altitude sickness. Hence the need to rise slowly in altitude and allow time to adapt as much as you can.

[Rhiannon8404]

My cousin’s husband was part of the 1996 Mount Everest disaster than John Krakauer wrote about in his book, Into This Air. Enough to keep me from ever considering it, even if I was into mountaineering.

[chizzuk]

@nearwildheaven

Did you mean 6,000 feet?

Yup. Oops. That wouldn’t make much sense, would it? :smack:

[Mangosteen]

@Lemur866

Change that to “coconut oil” and yeah, people really do dump it in their tea.

Coconuts do not grow in Nepal.

Actually, the southern lowland areas of Nepal are quite tropical. Mangoes, bananas, papayas grow in abundance. I didn’t see any coconut palms when I was there, but there might be some producing coconut palm in this area.

[Mangosteen]

@Ulf_the_Unwashed

What’s the denominator?
Always useful to know the relative size of the denominators when trying to compare and assess risk.
What fraction of drivers die on the roads? What fraction of Everest summit-attempters die on Everest?

Look, climbing Everest obviously appeals to some folks. And if this is something that somebody desperately wants to do, and they’re willing to accept the risks, more power to them.

But I don’t get it. The sense I have from reading about Everest is that it really is no longer the experience it once was–that the mountain is dirty, and crowded, and “tamed” with clearly delineated paths and fixed ropes set by underpaid, overworked Sherpas, to say nothing of the experienced “tour guides” who are hired by most climbers these days. When I was a boy, “climbing Mount Everest” seemed to signify one of the most remarkable things anyone could do. Now–not so much. I’m not going to say it’s “easy,” clearly it isn’t that, but I’ve read a lot of descriptions of people who were essentially steered up the mountain and brought back down again, the beneficiaries of good fortune and other people’s expertise more than their own skill. It sounds like both the climbers who died were more experienced than that, but… From where I sit, learning that someone climbed Everest elicits much more of a yawn than it did back then. It’s lost much of its luster, and I’m not sure what it’s supposed to demonstrate these days. It makes me think, “Wow, you sure had a lot of money and a lot of help,” not, “Wow, you sure are a brave adventurer.”

Maybe that’s not fair and maybe that’s not reasonable. But I doubt I’m the only person who has that reaction. Judging from some of the comments above, I’m pretty sure I’m not.

This is so true. The day the Sherpas set up “permanent” ladders and ropes over the most difficult parts of the climb, is the day Everest changed forever. Malory and Hillary probably were turning in their graves when they heard people say that they had “climbed” Everest under these “improved” conditions.

This is the reason why I choose to take the same bus from Kathmandu as Hillary did to his jumping off point (Lamasungu) for his trek to Everest. (Its the end of the road.) I didn’t want to fly in to Lukla like the vast majority of people do today and miss the beautiful 10 day hike to the Lukla airport area. Unlike Malory and Hillary, my goal was only the base camp area (Kala Patar). Actually climbing Everest never ever remotely entered my mind.