Exactly and it can be learned or unlearned. Anybody who says they are colorblind is not being realistic. Of course we’re aware of differences. It’s when we apply some judgment to the differences that it crosses the line into racism.
I’m 65 and grew up with very racist family members. I made a conscious choice to not follow in their footsteps. There are people of all races to be reviled and also people of all races to be treasured.
Some of us are a lot younger than that and/or did not grow up with racist family members. You may feel like you had to overcome your racism, but for a lot of folks, it was never a factor.
Well, that result was a little unexpected. It’s all pretty much in the middle for me, but apparently, from “most postive” to “least positive,” my preferences are Hispanics, Blacks, Asians, and then Whites.
My point was that I didn’t have to overcome, but rather that it is in fact a choice. And I agree with the generational thing. My kids for instance were never exposed to it.
However racism still exists unfortunately. It’s not as open or as wide spread, but it’s still there. I’m very happy that I am not now nor ever was one of the racists.
I guess it helps that my brother in law’s black and my sister’s white, but, no, I don’t feel anything like what the OP describes.
The fact that you don’t get why it is offensive is actually a bit troubling. How can you fix a problem if you don’t see it? Anyway, I’ll let Chris Rock explain further.
That was about Colin Powell, so even if it was offensive (see #2), I’m not getting racist from it if the original bit was about saying it with regards to a white guy.
Yeah, I seriously still disagree. Some people are preternaturally eloquent – there is nothing wrong with noting that they’re far better speakers than most of the populace. In Obama’s case, there is especially nothing wrong with it when the president immediately before him was overwhelmingly known as an unusually poor speaker for a president.
Maybe “overcome” was too strong a word. I meant that a lot of us live in different realities when it comes to racism. In some circles, not being racist isn’t really a choice you make, and is what you default to. You’d have to make the choice to be racist. I certainly don’t recall ever making the decision not to be. I only bring this up, not because anything you said was objectionable, but because I often hear people expressing some unfortunate thoughts accompanied by “You mean you don’t ever…? Oh, but come on, everybody…” And they just seem so certain. It’s like, sorry dude, but no. That’s just not how I roll. And I don’t think it’s because I’m so smart or tolerant or special or anything. I was born in the 1980s in California, and NOT Orange County. Being racist? Gwuh? Why?
Yes, I obviously know it still exists and probably isn’t going anywhere with any immediacy. It’s hard not to know when you’re black. Was just sayin.
I think everyone is a little prejudiced, but that doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is racial about it. It just means we have a tendency to form generalizations about groups of people. Maybe everyone has an “-ism” in their blindspot. I know a guy who is proud of his racial colorblindness, but every other thing that comes out of his mouth is sexist, classist, or lookist.
I’d be careful about how much to blame on “lizard brain”, though. I consider myself very conscientious of my inner bigot, who has been responsible for many embarrassing assumptions over the years (and likely more to come!). But I’ve never had bad thoughts about interracial coupling. My vice is more along the lines of thinking something like, “Those people are always fucking shit up!” when I see or hear about members of “those” people doing something wrong.
You are in willfull denial. Here is a NY Times article on the racial politics of “speaking well.”
I think the way it goes, most people don’t think “we should kill all X” or “why does Y keep taking our jerbs?”. But our stereotyping/racism is non-conscious, and we are often unaware that we subtly treat people differently. Even if it’s something subtle like our heart rate increases a few BPM in the presence of someone and we interpret it negatively. It’s for the same reason that dogs can be racist or sexist. We didn’t sit them down and tell them to bark at black people. The dogs pick up on the subtle ways people act when they meet a stranger, and can interpret friend or foe.
IMHO, people sometimes read racism where it isn’t, but the “speaks well” stuff isn’t coming from a black box. Not everybody who says it is racist/prejudices/stereotyping, but it happens at too high a frequency regarding black speakers to pretend that it’s a coincidence.
Definitions - The Racial Politics of Speaking Well - Lynette Clemetson - The New York Times from link…
“But here is a pointer. Do not use it as the primary attribute of note for a black person if you would not use it for a similarly talented, skilled or eloquent white person”
So as long as we say it to white people too, it’s ok? How would the recipient of such praise have any way of knowing I was such an “equal-opportunity” kind of guy?
As I said in an earlier post, I’m aware that there’s a stereotype that black people, in general, do not speak well, and thus when a black person in the public eye makes the slightest bit of effort, they are perceived as speaking well.
That’s not what I’m saying. The problem with this whole thing is, even if it is too often a compliment given to black people, Obama is a very good speaker regardless. As in, he’s far better than most people, regardless of race, gender, or creed. This does not preclude people of other or the same race from being good speakers, many are – hell, IMO Bill Clinton was a good speaker (but not quite as good as Obama).
Is the compliment too often applied to black people who really aren’t all the great of speakers and just happen to talk “normally”? Sure. But it’s a legitimate observation in this case, and while some people might be doing it out of some subtle, silly racism that doesn’t mean it’s not a legitimate compliment that Obama, specifically, should get.
Well right. There’s an ocean of space between being Grand Wizard of the Klan and having the kind of colorblindness Stephen Colbert professes to have. We all have some prejudices, regardless of how reluctant we are to admit them, but I’d be happy if the worst of us were somewhere between complete colorblindness and having a negative visceral reaction to interracial couples. I’ll admit I’m at times exhausted by any given white man before I’ve even spoken to him assuming he’ll be an annoying douchebag of the Angry White Man variety. In my defense, even white women find white men to be insufferable! Plus seriously now, I give them a fair shake, or at least I think I do.
FTR, I do not think Obama is all that as a speaker. He’s good, I guess, but not better than any other decent public speaker I’ve seen, and certainly not any better than Clinton. I think he’s had the low expectations of being a black man and his predecessor being Dubya working in his favor.
Good.
He talks too slow. When people talk slow like that to me IRL I’m like okay, get to your point.
He’s a pretty good public speaker but I’m just impatient.
Is the “they all look alike” effect racist? I was raised surrounded by a lot more white people than black people, including all of the people I know the best, and one result of that is that I’m better at recognizing individuals if they’re white. In a context where there might be only one or two black people, it’s enough to identify people to mentally label them “the black guy”, or maybe “the tall black guy”. But in a more mixed or black-predominant environment (like, say, the public school classroom where I’m student-teaching), that’s not enough, and so I have to work a lot harder to recognize people. Does that make me racist?
No, I think that really is just unavoidable human nature, not even learned behavior. People differentiate others by features that are most variable among the type of people they’re around.
I mean, if you went around SAYING they actually all do objectively look alike, obviously that would be racist. I’m sure you don’t do that.
Chronos, you’re fine as long as you don’t swear to people they look just like so-and-so and ask if they’re related. But this isn’t racism, mind you. Just stupidity.
I have schooled and worked with white people my whole life, and I still have a hard time differentiating them.
Yes, you are obviously a filthy racist because you won’t move to Lagos and recalibrate your brain’s definition of the typical face! And even if you did, you’d be still racist for not simultaneously moving to Tokyo taking in the facial variations there, :dubious:
Of course, my problem is that all Asian people look the same to me. And all white people, and everyone else. It’s not prosopagnosia, I just hesitate to use acquaintances names if they look like someone else vaguely the same as I often get it wrong.