Evolution of a Bush Hater

The BBQ Pit
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Bush Haters out there … tell me how your hatred began and evolved.

Did you hate him a little bit before the Republicans stole the 2000 election in Florida? Did it grow gradually between then and the theft of the 2004 election in Ohio? Was there anything in between?

Was there a major spike with the Iraq war or was the hatred already as high as it could be? Any other major events?

Confession … I was/am a Clinton Hater. Although it’s been a long time I think it began with my perception that he got a pass from the liberal media that did their best to get him elected.

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If I thought for one second that you were anything but a nutjob with an axe to grind and a propensity for starting threads, I might answer.

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I’m definately more than that … but even if I was, I get the feeling I’d be in good company if only I was grinding a different axe.

4

Is a Bush hater someone who disagrees with many of his policies? If so, then I suppose you could call me that.

But I wouldn’t say I hate the man. He looks like a nice enough person.

If I take your question to mean, “What is the evolution of your dislike against his policies”, that’s a different matter.

Although I don’t generally agree with the Republican mindset as I perceive it, I was willing to go with something new after 8 years of Clinton. Not because I disliked Clinton’s polices, but because shakeups can often be good. However, I can’t remember feeling much of anything toward Bush in the first months of his presidency either way.

I initially approved of Bush’s actions after 9/11. Going into Afghanistan was a logical move, I felt. But it seemed to me things began to go awry after that. During the buildup to Iraq I said that I was open to being convinced of the necessity of that action. As I listened and watched I remained unconvinced.

What began to really dismay me was how I felt the administration used its momentum from 9/11 to put forth many policies without in a fit of “passion”. I think in other times things like the Patriot Act would have been defeated by cooler heads, or not even proposed at all.

The reply to that might be, “But we’re at war. We don’t have time for cool heads.” Perhaps, but I’ve heard that refrain in various forms so many times that it began to sound like putting the cart before the horse. I’ve since become very concerned that having us in a state of war is a desireable state of affairs for some because it allows them to put forth policy that wouldn’t otherwise be accepted.

Eventually, these policies led to a lot of deaths in Iraq and our terrible treatment of prisoners. The Abu Graib situation made me very angry and ashamed of our nation.

Now apart from the war, I have some other problems with the Bush administration’s policies. Two in particular leap to mind.

I feel the administration has been very hostile toward science. Bush coming out with even a tepid endorsement of Intelligent Design was very alarming to me.

Second is Bush’s proposal of a constitutional amendment which would have banned gay marriage. I’m not gay, and don’t currently have any gay friends (that I know of). But I found this suggestion reprehensible. I feel our Constitution stands for rights, and the thought of it being used to effectively discriminate against a group that is harming nobody by their desire to marry turned my stomach.

I don’t care that he apparently never expected to get it passed. The very suggestion was enough to offend me deeply.

So I have deep disagreements with Bush administration policy, and that is a brief history of my feelings on the matter. Please do tell: Am I a “Bush hater”?

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I don’t associate myself as a Bush hater, but I do oppose his administration. I have several reasons:

1.) I do not sympathize with the religious right. As an agnostic and skeptic, I find his behavior to appease fundamentalist Christians as against my well being and threatening to me. I also find it offensive that he is attempting to erode the separation of church and state, which seems to be part of the platform for the current GOP. I feel that obscenity laws, laws regarding sex, blue laws and other inherently religious-based laws should be struck down and that people should be as free as possible to do what they wish, in so far as they do not harm others (and influence should not be construed as a harm; I can live with a predominantly Christian-influenced state, and Christians can live with themselves and their kids having the relatively small influence of non-Christians, homosexuals, evolutionists, pro-choicers, and free thinkers of all kinds.)

2.) I believe that we went into this war on false pretenses, and that we were coerced. The administration may or may not have fully known, but I feel that they were negligent in taking us to war with poor intelligence, no exit strategy, and little to gain. I feel we are less safe today than we were before we invaded Iraq by creating a definite reason for terrorist cells to recruit those in the affected region who now hate our country and its citizens for inflicting this upon them. I find it hypocritical that we went to war to Defend Our Freedom, but now those who opposed the war are still dismissed because now we are apparently Creating Democracy Everywhere – despite the fact that the GOP has no apparent compunction in dealing with other dictatorships.

3.) I find it fundamentally offensive that he has appointed corrupt officials and that his party is the party of spin and soundbyting. I am saddened that the Democrats are faced with a choice – lie through spin, omission, and flagrant misrepresentation of opponents’s views, or lose elections. I’m offended at the notion that a good citizen will accept sweeping powers with little to no oversight. I am surprised and saddened that some people apparently believe that Clinton’s admittedly stupid sexual indiscretions are morally repugnant compared to the GOP’s cadre of scandals.

4.) I find many aspects of the Patriot Act equally offensive and a personal threat to my liberties. I am angry when I am told that they are for my freedom, and thake of security. This is absolutely contrary to the American spirit. I feel that the Bush administration is taking us in a direction which is less free. Sensible precautions are one thing; indefinite imprisonment without trial or access to a lawyer clearly isn’t. I feel we have gone way too far. I believe that the GOP is fundamentally anti-free-speech because of the way that those who oppose these views are treated.

For all of these reasons, and more, I am against the GOP and Bush is as much of a good old boy GOP candidate as you can get. I also find him an embarassingly poor speaker and I do not like the fact that he represents our country to outside nations.

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Before 9/11, I looked upon President Bush as a guy way above his head. His public appearances were awkward and embarassing to us as a nation. He had trouble speaking and said things that were frightening in their ignorance considering his position of power. But hate? Nah. He was a dunce, but he was our dunce! Besides, he couldn’t do any harm…

Somewhere between the constant leaks pointing towards the “interesting” lead-up to the Iraqi war, the gay craze, and the realization that Bush was ignorance personified (intelligent design indeed) I suppose you could say the hate began. I don’t really hate him anymore, though. His followers, on the other hand, make my blood boil, which is a problem since I live in a blood red state.

As far as I’m concerned they should keep it up. You reap what you sow and all that. Most of his bullshit won’t affect me directly anyway. Selfish? You bet. But I’m shellshocked after so many years of this shit – it takes too much energy to feel outraged every other day.

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I must admit - and I’m embarassed about it to this day - I did not vote in the 2000 presidential election. Although I’ve always been socially liberal, I was at the time very very fiscally conservative (I’m not anymore.) This kind of left me on the fence. Although I felt sort of neutral towards Gore (I like him now), I disliked Lieberman. With regards to Bush/Cheney, I didn’t know much about them; I knew I disliked Bush’s father, but I assumed that GW would be the younger, hipper, more progressive Bush.

All this put together led me to cast a vote of apathy, something I’ll never do again.

For the first few months of Bush’s term, I don’t really remember him doing anything significant. Most of what I heard about him was how he was always making up words and misspeaking in public, and how the rest of the world hated him. The way I looked at it at the time was kind of, “He’s an idiot, but he’s our idiot.” I’d say 80% of me was indifferent and the other 20% liked him.

When the tide began to change for me is after 9/11. I didn’t like the way he responded, and it really peeved me that he got on tv and cried. I couldn’t imagine FDR coming on tv (or radio, more likely) and crying (maybe he did for all I know, but we’re talking about my perception as a 20 year old kid at the time.) This wasn’t enough to turn me into a “Bush-hater.”

I supported the invasion of Afghanistan and the ouster of the Taliban. I don’t know now if I would do so again or not, because I definitely supported it out of blind anger, but I probably would.

The single greatest turning-point for me was probably the Patriot Act. Every little detail about this thing pissed me off to no end. Even the name. Especially the name. I’m still pissed about it to this day. After that I began to distrust the administration and keep a much closer eye on their operations. Whereas they looked harmless and well-intentioned to me when I wasn’t really paying attention, they looked vile, manipulative, and dangerous upon closer examination.

When we went to war with Iraq I was still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (see how hard I tried to like this guy?) because he had me convinced that Iraq had WMDs and was going to point them straight at our heads. It didn’t take long for me to realize that this was a crock of shit and the rest is, well, history.

I’ve obviously left out a lot (Plamegate, dirty campaigning against Kerry, chronic hypocrisy, gay marriage ban, etc.) but I just tried to hit the really big points for brevity. A true “why I hate Bush” essay could easily reach book-length if I had the time and patience.

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Perception is reality as they say, but I find this one the hardest to understand. At the risk of starting a great debate, I thought the Clinton years were the high point of corruption, lieing, smearing enemies and spin.

Was this board around between 1992 and 2000? Boy I’d love to be able to read some of the Pit and GD posts from that era.

Thanks for the input so far … no real Bush Haters yet imho.

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I’m an unreconstructed and unapolgetic Bush hater. I’ve been around long enough so everyone already know my reasons. No need to rehash them all again. I think he may be the absolute worst president we’ve ever had.

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fluiddruid, thank you. You expressed my feelings exactly.

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Really ? Clinton was a goody two shoes compared to Bush.

Yes, I’m a Bush hater. I disliked him from the start, and loathed him more the more I heard. He is utterly corrupt, ignorant, poorly spoken, hateful, stupid, incompetent, bigoted, fanatical, evil, and a fool. He is a creature with all vices and no virtues; he represents everything I despise. His election is proof America deserves the hatred and contempt of the world.

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You need to educate yourself. Seriously.

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I’m willing to … where would I find a fair comparison of the two administrations on that subject? Heck, I’d even read some SDMB threads! :smiley:

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Before the invasion of Iraq, I regarded George W. Bush as a borderline incompetent but well-intentioned Prez who was often manipulated by some Christian fundamentalist nutcases who had his ear. I had a lot of :rolleyes: for him, but not hatred. I would not have said “worst President ever” or anything like that.

My opinion of him between 9/11 and his buildup for the invasion of Iraq actually went up. I would still say he made a spectacularly good address to the nation after the initial attacks, and I supported him totally on the invasion of Afghanistan.

Invading Iraq was sufficient to plunge him to the bottom of the pile and move me from “pretty definitely gonna vote against him but he wasn’t that bad” to “he’s gotta go, by any means necessary get this person out of the White House”

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:smack: Why do I do that?! I really would like to see some fair comparison between Bush and Clinton and I apologize to anyone who was inclined to provide them before I added the crack about SMDB threads.

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Oh, and to answer your question, this board goes back to 1999, so yeah, lots of threads both pertaining to the 2000 and the 2004 campaigns.

You’d find most of them in either Great Debates or the Pit.

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A question was once posed: How long can one blame the previous adminstration for the misdeeds of this one?

The answer appears to be: As long as it takes.

I was no fan of Clinton when he was in office, in fact, I really hated the man, but right now I’m starting to wish he was president again. Bush was supposed to be the one who restore honor and integrity to the white house. He must have said that on opposite day, because it just seems like it’s making it worse. Since 9/11, we’ve had a propaganda campaign to justify the iraq invasion, the constant spin that anyone opposing the war or in fact anything the adminstration did was “emboldening our enemies”, damage done to our intelligence infastructure because someone didn’t like the reasons for the invasion being challenged, croynism being shown off twice in as many months in the form of Miers and Brownie, The president insisting that we do not toture even as the vice president practically begs to be allowed to do so, creating a string of gulags to keep people without trial “because they’re terrorists, becase we said so” and the list goes on…

I’m hard pressed to think of what Clinton did that even so much as measures up to any of those. Gore at the Buddist Temple, Clinton’s Womanizing, Giving the Panama canal back as we promised to, etc…

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I voted for Nader in 2000, but I was hopeful Gore (who himself failed to impress me at all) would win, as I was generally okay with the direction of the country under Clinton. Bush struck me as kinda dumb and I was wary of his connections to the social right, but he still might have won me over, or at least kept me mostly apathetic.

Then Bush came down with his proclamation on human embryonic stem cell research funding. As you may recall, Bush froze federal funding on stem cell research except on a handful of previously established cell lines, most of which have since proven to be worthless. As a biologist, this hit close to home. Indeed, it could have affected my own career (as it happened, I went into a field only tangentially connected to stem cells, but still…). Never had I seen such a craven and stupid attempt to play to the religious right at the cost of the progress of medical science and the American biotechnology industry. Even worse, the nod towards compromise (although it was really nothing of the sort) indicated to me that this was a purely political move, and Bush didn’t really give a damn about the moral rights of embryos, or else he would have stopped funding outright and asked congress to ban such research in the private sector. Also at this time I noticed that the guy loved his vacations.

So, Bush was on my shit list. On permanent marker, and underlined. Twice. He’d have to do something major, like see America through a major crisis like a foreign attack on our soil, to get back into my graces. And, to be fair, in the immediate aftermath I was duly impressed. I did support the actions in Afghanistan. Didn’t quite make up for the Stem Cell debacle, but it repaired his reputation somewhat in my eyes.

But then things started to go wrong. “Homeland Security” started looking scarier and more a threat to our civil liberties. The tone of the nation towards critics of the administration and liberals of all stripes was increasingly hostile and hyperbolic. And, for reasons I still don’t comprehend, Bush decided to march us headlong into war with Iraq despite foreign opposition (thus pissing away the unprecedented global goodwill towards America following 9/11) and a campaign in Afghanistan against Al Quaeda and the Taliban (the actual perpetrators of 9/11) still very much underway.

I think the Abu Gharib photos and Bush’s stand against gay marriage was what finally moved my opinion towards him into what could fairly be described as “hate”. I’m pro-marriage and anti-torture. Bush is the opposite. I cannot see how any rational being could support that man.

Nearly every action Bush as taken since (or the consequences of previous actions becoming apparent) just serves to convince me further or his incompetence and lock of concern for the world and the American people. I shan’t bore you by listing them all. I could probably count everything he’s done as president that I agree with or think has worked out hell for the country on one hand, and even then I’d have to get some help from the audience to fill out all five.

I admit, I’m liberal enough that I never exactly loved the guy, but I think his own actions provide me with enough of a rational basis to call him one of the worst presidents ever. (Jackson’s the worst, Bush has yet to commit genocide over SCOTUS’ orders. Then again, with the way the court is today, he’d never have to).

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Some reading about the Bush (I) and Nixon administrations is fairly sobering material. Clinton’s people were choir boys in comparison. Or are you limiting yourself to a comparison between the CA and the BA (II)? In that case, the masters of lying and spinning seem to clearly belong to the latter. I’m not sure what corruption you are referring to.

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Oops, that should have read Reagan and Nixon, not ‘Bush I’.