The problem with disco was that it turned really good musicians into suck: Elton John, David Bowie, The Isley Brothers, Donna Summer, Bee Gees, just to name a few.
(Don’t laugh at Donna: she did “She Works Hard for the Money” and “Enough is Enough” with The Barbara.)
Look the OP asked a question…there’s a difference between not liking something and having an gutteral HATRED for it. I’m firmly in the SOME people don’t like disco because of the faces of the performers camp, EVEN though many of those people don’t realize it or realize the moviation of the “Disco Sucks” movement.
This may very well be a cultural thing…<b>my</b>friends that liked Disco seemed more urban and comfortable around people of different cultures…those that hated Disco were from more rural settings. They knew nothing or cared anything about “black” culture except that it was inferior…they were big Southern Rock fans.
Sure there was plenty of bad Disco and plenty of Bad Rock, and plenty of Bad Rap and plenty of bad Opera…however I notice that there is only two music forms that seem to have this countrywide “hatred”, not dislike…not take or leave it…not “its not my cup of tea…” but <b>hatred</b> and that’s Rap and Disco. Whose performers are mostly black and whose form, white people seemed to lack the ability to co-op…en masse.
Unlike Rock and Roll.
I<b>am not</b> saying that not liking Disco makes you a racist…I’m only suggesting that the country’s <b>hatred</b> of it, isn’t based on a critical understanding of music theory, if it was most POPULAR music would be hated and it’s not.
Something else is the underlying moviation…in my opinion.
But YMMV…
I could not have expressed it better. I realize this is only anecdotal evidence, but at my high school (a predominantly white public school in the southwest suburbs of Chicago, from which I graduated in 1978), it was not uncommon for the relatively small number white students who were into disco to be called “white niggers” by other white students.
As has been previously stated, it is certainly not necessary to be a racist to dislike disco (I don’t care much for it myself, and I’m black, and so is most of my family). But those who are claiming that there was no racial component to the “Disco Sucks” movement are in denial.
I couldn’t disagree more. There are certainly those who hate disco because of its gay and black associations, but, remember by 1979-80, when it finally petered out, the disco culture had long ceased to be an exclusively black or gay phenomenon.
IMO, what people rejected at the cellular level was the elitist decadence of the culture surrounding the music, which was taking over pop culture. The record companies assumed there was an endless market for disco music, and began to release nothing but (read “Hit Men” by Fred Dannen for details). Combine that with the fact that disco culture looked down its nose at most people, and eventually, there was a backlash, as the music-loving public refused to buy into a scene that made it clear they were rejected from it.
Given the ubiquity of popular black acts before and after disco who do not engender such hatred, the racist tag just doesn’t ring true. Homosexuality is a slightly different story, given that American society 30 years ago was astoundingly naive by todays standards. For example, people were shocked and dismayed to hear in the late seventies that Elton John was gay (a fact that 6 years of ever more flamboyant outfits had failed to clue them in on). Disco was something that the public associated with John Travolta, not gay culture.
It was the snobbishness that caused the hatred far more than color or sexuality.
People who ascribe the animosity against disco to racism don’t know very much about the state of rock music in the Seventies. Allow me to enlighten them, just a bit.
In the early Seventies, New York City had two rock-oriented radio stations: WPLJ FM and WNEW FM. And in those days, “rock” was defined very broadly. The playlists for those stations included all the artists you’d hear today on “classic rock” radio (i.e. Led Zeppelin, the Beatles, Pink Floyd, the Stones, the Who, the Doors, et al.), but also a lot of artists you’d NEVER hear on classic rock stations today.
In 1976, if you listened to WPLJ for an hour, you might well hear “Stairway to Heaven” followed by Stevie Wonder’s “Superstition” followed by Jethro Tull’s “Aqualung” followed by Simon & Garfunkel’s “Hazy Shade of Winter” followed by Mountain’s “Mississippi Queen” followed by the Temptations’ “Papa Was a Rolling Stone” followed by the Beach Boys’ “Heroes and Villains” followed by the Bee Gees’ “Lonely Days” followed by Jimi Hendrix’ “Purple Haze” followed by Elton John’s “Madman Across the Water” followed by Lynyrd SKynyrd’s “Gimme Three Steps” followed by Queen’s “Bohemian Rhapsody.”
Get the idea? FM rock radio used to play a LOT of black artists, as well as a lot of gay artists. So, what changed things? More than anything, the problem lay in the fact that disco in general (and the Bee Gees in particular) were INESCAPABLE!
In general, I’m not one to gripe about songs I dislike. When I hear people whining about how much they hate, say, or Celine Dion’s “My Heart Will Go On,” my response is, “Oh, please- if you don’t like that song, it’s VERY easy to avoid. There are plenty of radio stations that NEVER play Celine Dion, you know. Find some, and listen to them!”
But between 1976 and 1979, it was almost impossible to find rock or pop stations that didn’t play tons of disco, and loads of the Bee Gees. I’d have been delighted to say “Disco isn’t my cup of tea, but that’s okay- I’ll just turn on WPLJ or WNEW, and let other people listen to disco on the pop stations.” But that wasn’t an option! WNEW and WPLJ were playing the Bee Gees constantly, too!
And that’s why we rock-loving teens LOATHED disco instead of merely disliking it. We just couldn’t get AWAY from it! Even popular rock artists (the Stones, Rod Stewart, and others) were recording disco songs! There just wasn’t a single oasis in radio where we could turn to avoid that crud.
Sadly, in the ensuing backlash against disco, WPLJ and WNEW eventually removed pretty much ALL soul/R & B artists from their playlists. It was nice to wave bye-bye to the Bee Gees… but unfortunately, they took Marvin Gaye and Billy Preston with them.
I still say the outright hatred of disco was not racist nor homophobic in nature. As I stated in post #56, we had just emerged from a tumultuous decade, an unpopular war, etc. In the 1960’s people worried about Vietnam, getting drafted, getting into college so as not to get drafted. The music of the late 1960’s early 1970’s reflected the serious nature of the times - “Time Has Come Today”, “I’d Love To Change The World”, “Revolution”, “WAR (what is it good for)” and a LOT of others. Then came the mid-70’s and a new crowd came along that did NOT have to live through those times. Their big concerns? Were their platform shoes the right style? Can they possibly find a shirt louder than ones they already have?
And what stunning, riveting music came out of these “angst-ridden” 1970’s?? “Do the Hustle”?? “Fly Robin Fly” ?? To me, the rejection, vilification and outright hatred of disco was a reaction to the pretentious plastic ways of that whole era.
To make a vaguely valid analogy, college fraternities declined in popularity in the late 1940’s and early 1950’s. Students in college at that time “missed out” on putting your neck on the line and fighting in the trenches. Then, along came the veterans on the GI Bill meeting up with these pampered punks. Imagine telling a guy who had to storm Omaha Beach on D-Day that he had to wear a beanie because he was a “frosh”. Oh yeah, I’m sure the veterans wanted to cooperate with that foolishness. :rolleyes:
Again, it was a tough, serious era followed by a pretentious phony one, with the slightly older members despising the new kids.
I hope the people who are dismissing disco as pretentious aren’t defending what rock was at the time.
I used to be a big “disco sucks” type. Then I grew up and realized a lot of it was good. Dancing is fun.
You’re forgetting about Country.
As for the people who claim that Disco was hated because straight white boys don’t dance… bull-ony… there’s plenty of good dance music that isn’t Disco. Put on The Trammps, and I’m outta there… play The Flamin’ Groovies, James Brown or The Specials… friggin’-A I’ll dance.
And if we are talking about ‘gay music’, there was infinitely better ‘gay music’, non-disco, being performed by the aformentioned Bowie, John, as well as by acts such as Mott the Hoople. Disco was a bad detour, just like post Ice-Cube gangsta rap was to hip-hop, before they became sane and went to house music.
More so than you mention. Remember one thing that did not exist yet in the era of the disco: The Sony Walkman (and its infinite knock-offs). People would walk down the streets with these compact stereos balanced on a shoulder blaring away the music (usually disco) into one ear and ‘sharing’ it with the local couple of blocks. Very, very intrusive. These compact stereos earned the monikker ‘Ghetto Blasters’ and some still call them that to this day. Although the modern ones are designed in such a way that the old style-shoulder balancing is not an option. (unless you have really wii-de shoulders).
Oh, I beg to disagree. I was there; people were not that clueless. You may find the isolated 13-year-old girl who was surprised, but not the majority of adults. BTW, Elton John was officially “bi” in the 1970s, not gay.
It’s too perfect. I must quote Zappa:
Sorry I missed this thread over the holiday. My two cents:
I turned 18 in 1977. I went away to college and looked forward to “dorm parties”
where I could score. And what did I find?
Dancing - f**king dancing! Dancing that had (for me) intricate moves and a required dress code! Disco destroyed my chances at scoring. I can’t dance to save my life, and here was shot at hooking up and I’m a damn wallflower.
I seethed at the pretty-dressed guys who represented everything I hated -
style over substance! I loathed all the girls that just wanted to dance all night -
I had other designs.
As for these disco dance dorm parties, I would go in (at least at school they couldn’t pull that Studio 54 exclusionary shit), down a few beers, go back to my room and crank the stereo with tunes that meant something to me - mostly the
progressive rock bands of that era - Tull, ELP, Genesis, Yes. (Stuff the girls really liked :rolleyes: )
Was I jealous? Hell yeah. Did I have any homophobic/racist tendencies - hell no -
I never considered that music gay or black. I just hated it because it was dance
music.
Luckily I lasted in college long enough to see disco whither and have New Wave
take its place.
Now 25 years later I can actually listen to some disco - in small doses - without
going postal.
Are you saying that New Wave wasn’t dance music or didn’t have a ‘dress’ code? Just asking 'cause I’ve seen this “Thank heaven for New Wave…” points a couple of times and i find it strange as “I” remember going for a specific fashion look, hair styles, drinking till I was blind and dancing till my feet bled…with all those undanceable 12 inch or extended remixes.
Good times…
Please describe your favourite “New Wave” band and whether or not they produced “Dance Music”.
Please note: No one is saying that if you dislike Disco you’re a racist/homophobe…
As to the WPLJ/WNEW memories, I don’t get it…they were doing what Top 40 radio stations do, find popular music and play it till you can’t stand it anymore…I can’t listen to Stairway to Heaven anymore because of that, but I don’t hate rock and roll. If you say you couldn’t stand the Bee-Gees…I’m with you, but a WHOLE music form…? And I guarantee you that the majority of Disco they played wasn’t what was on the ‘Black’ Charts…just pretenders trying to cash in.
Honestly… I don’t remember PLJ’s playlist, in my memories I hear them playing Billy Joel over and over again…but I doubt they played any good Disco, the same way they don’t play any good Rock, just whatever’s EASY. Had you said you listened to WBLS, you would have me…but WPLJ?
Dude, I feel your pain…
Not sure of all the lyrics…all this Disco talk has me trying to locate my old favorites…
… a lovely girl with a crooked smile. Now they gotta split, …go somewhere far far away with no Blacks no Jews and no Gays."
There but for the grace of god, there go I…I…I, there but for the grace of god, there goes, I…I…I…I…I!
…This little girl turns out to be a natural freak gaining weight and losing sleep. Now when she turned sweet 16 she packs her things and leaves with a man she met on the street… too much love is worse than none at all.
There but for the grace of god, there go I…I…I, there but for the grace of god, there goes, I…I…I…I…I!’
Thanks
Found it…
Machine’s “There But for the Grace of God (There Go I)”
Not all New Wave was dance music - but all of disco was.
It also didn’t sound all the same.
Key here is under the disco regime you were judged by how you danced and how you looked. Under new wave you could flail around like a chicken without a head and it was accepted. The “dress code” was far less rigorous.
It was much easier to dig up a black outfit and put on a skinny tie.
Again please give me an example of a New Wave HIT that wasn’t danceable or a New Wave group that didn’t produce dance songs.
Please no more generalizations. Does Barry White sound Like Lipps, inc.? Sylvester sound like Gloria Gaynor? The Village People sound like Chic…don’t think so…and one wouldn’t have to try too hard to find New Wave that sounded interchangable OR the Rock and Roll in the 80s either for that matter.
C’mon a headless chicken dance…black outfits…skinny ties…Geez man, who let you outside?
If disco had just been some beat-heavy dance music craze it would have come and gone, like techno-pop.
But the damn thing was like a shark, chewing up and spitting out everyone who crossed it’s wake.
I wasn’t a redneck homophobe. I was a dj in the 70s. I heard (and played) HUNDREDS of songs a year through that era. Big hits, little hits, cut-outs. I heard everything disco had to offer.
Rockers, like Rod Stewart and the Rolling Stones
Soul singers, like Aretha Franklin
Country, like Dolly Parton
Popsters, like Olivia Newton-John and Barbra Steisand
They all got jammed into disco at one time or another. Disco versions of everything from MacArthur Park to 1930s standards like Baby Face to the theme from Star Wars. Manufactured artists like C-list/soft porn “actress” Andrea True, and the Village People.
It was everything bad about music rolled into one sloppy genre. To this day, I have exactly one disco song in my collection (it’s Donna Summer, the one legitimate singer who came out of disco.) I can cheerfully live without ever hearing any of the others for the rest of my life.
You’re rather snide and normally I ignore such people but I’ll let it pass this time and try to answer your questions.
- Not all new wave HITs as you put it were great dance songs. Now we’ll probably differ on what is considered a hit. Blondie’s Rip Her to Shreds was a big song for them in the early days but calling it a dance song would be a stretch. Check out the early Devo material. Stuff like Jocko Homo, and Mongoloid. Not dance fare. Squeeze’s If I Didn’t Love You… I’m not denying there were New Wave dance hits; that wasn’t the point. The point was a non-dancer such as myself could “dance” to this music and not feel like I was being scrutinized for style. I’m not spastic either but I hated dances that were fairly structured; I never cared to spend any time practicing dancing; to me it should be something that comes from a primal place within. Disco never cut it for me on that level.
And again, I never came upon any new wave clubs where some asshole bouncer got to be god and decide who got in and who didn’t.
Disco music generallly had a standard back beat; you knew disco when you heard it and to me the production values were drawn from a limited pool; hence “it sounded all the same to me”.
I don’t know what your problem is vis-a-vis my observations on "dressing black with a skinny tie and blending into the scenery; so I can’t add anything to it. I know it sure as hell wasn’t expensive to get a wardrobe going in those days. Perhaps you feel disco clothing was just as inexpensive? I’ll concede that; I guess I assumed it cost more because it “looked” expensive.