Examples of "modern" suicides in the ancient world

[Guinastasia]

What about Crown Prince Rudolf comitting murder/suicide with his mistress at Mayerling? Does that fit in?

[griffin1977]

@Marion_Wormer

Lucretius–killed himself

I’d say this is basically it. Details are sketchy but it does seem to be poet whose life was cut short by suicide, not due to any great defeat, but possibly by a “love potion” (as in a history of drug use in the modern parlance IMO).

@Marion_Wormer

Empedocles jumped into a volcano. It may not have been suicide, he may have been an idiot.

Also this, though it sounds like something that happened at the end of his life, and maybe he DID think he’d be turned into a god.

@Marion_Wormer

Isocrates–starved himself to death

Definitely not this. Isocrates killed himself after arguably) THE great defeat, as in the defeat of the Greek way of life, and democracy itself, by Philip of Macedon, never to arise for more than a millennium (OK, a western 21st century romantic view of things, but still).

[Gyrate]

@Guinastasia

What about Crown Prince Rudolf comitting murder/suicide with his mistress at Mayerling? Does that fit in?

There’s also Ludwig II of Bavaria, although his “suicide” may well have been faked.

And speaking of drowning oneself, it’s probably worth mentioning Virginia Woolf who, while successful, suffered from severe mental illness (cited in her suicide note).

[dreamregent]

An Ancient Egyptian text, Papyrus Berlin 3024 (circa 1900 BC), talks of despondency and suicide. The text appears to be from the Middle Kingdom corpus of wisdom literature. The author doesn’t appear to be thinking about this from the perspective of being punished or in trouble. It seems more like a deep depression and nothing is right with his world. You can find a more recent translation here. The narrative is in the form of a discussion between the man and his soul.

[Nava]

@Kobal2

That’s a pretty hardcore way to die. What’s wrong with shoving a sword straight into one’s heart the proper Roman way, anyhow ?

The one she would normally have had handy had been impounded after Caesar fell on it backwards a few times.

@Little_Nemo

Prior to that, the accepted thought was that people were in conscious control of their actions. If you did something it was because you had thought it over and made the decision to do it. All human action was voluntary choice. This is such a fundamentally different way of seeing human nature, it’s hard for modern people to grasp.

An alternative view was that everything was ordained. Also difficult to comprehend to most of us, but there are many people who hold it nowadays.

[dreamregent]

@Little_Nemo

Prior to that, the accepted thought was that people were in conscious control of their actions. If you did something it was because you had thought it over and made the decision to do it. All human action was voluntary choice.

I’m not sure what you mean here. There are plenty of examples of gods supposedly interfering in the affairs of men (e.g. “A god or an oracle told me to do it so I did it”). For example, Egypt’s 18th Dynasty pharaoh, Akhenaten, related explicit instructions he “received” from the Aten in monumental relief on the boundary stelae surrounding present-day Amarna (i.e. Akhetaten):

The king addresses his gathered courtiers:

‘As the Aten is beheld, the Aten desires that there be made for him […] as a monument with an eternal and everlasting name. Now, it is the Aten, my father, who advised me concerning it, [namely] Akhetaten. No official has ever advised me concerning it, not any of the people who are in the entire land has ever advised me concerning it, to suggest making Akhetaten in this distant place. It was the Aten, my fath[er, who advised me] concerning it, so that it might be made for Him as Akhetaten… Behold, it is Pharaoh who has discovered it: not being the property of a god, not being the property of a goddess, not being the property of a ruler, not being the property of a female ruler, not being the property of any people to lay claim to it…’

‘I shall make Akhetaten for the Aten, my father, in this place. I shall not make Akhetaten for him to the south of it, to the north of it, to the west of it, to the east of it. I shall not expand beyond the southern stela of Akhetaten toward the south, nor shall I expand beyond the northern stela of Akhetaten toward the north, in order to make Akhetaten for him there. Nor shall I make (it) for him on the western side of Akhetaten, but I shall make Akhetaten for the Aten, my father, on the east of Akhetaten, the place which He Himself made to be enclosed for Him by the mountain…’

‘I shall make the “House of the Aten” for the Aten, my father, in Akhetaten in this place. I shall make the “Mansion of the Aten” for the Aten, my father, in Akhetaten in this place. I shall make the Sun Temple of the [Great King’s] Wife [Nefernefruaten-Nefertiti] for the Aten, my father, in Akhetaten in this place. I shall make the “House of Rejoicing” for the Aten, my father, in the “Island of the Aten, Distinguished in Jubilees” in Akhetaten in this place… I shall make for myself the apartments of Pharaoh, I shall make the apartments of the Great King’s Wife in Akhetaten in this place.

[Little_Nemo]

nm

[Sage_Rat]

Catherine of Siena starved herself to death and certainly seems, to my modern eyes, to have had a mental illness of some form.

She might not have otherwise lived a life of plenty and riches, but probably she could have done better than starvation.

[Colibri]

@Guinastasia

What about Crown Prince Rudolf comitting murder/suicide with his mistress at Mayerling? Does that fit in?

I don’t think that killing oneself over an unhappy love affair fits. It should be something that isn’t prompted by negative external events, like love problems.

[Don_t_Panic]

@Guinastasia

What about Crown Prince Rudolf comitting murder/suicide with his mistress at Mayerling? Does that fit in?

What are you proposing it as an example of? A modern-style suicide narrative from modern times? Then, yes, maybe. It’s from the nineteenth century. The OP wasn’t asking for further examples of that, though. Or, a modern-style suicide narrative from the *ancient *world? Then, no. It’s from the nineteenth gosh-darned century.

Although, even though I don’t want to speak for the OP, I think examples of suicides resulting from unsuccessful love affairs, Young Werther-style, from the *actual *ancient world would be interesting enough. There’s Dido, as discussed, but I can’t think of any others off the top of my head. It certainly seems to me to be more of a modern-style trope than an ancient one. I’m guessing that there are some, though, probably even some obvious ones that I’m forgetting.

[Captain_Amazing]

It’s mythical, but in the story of Hero and Leander, Hero throws herself in the ocean after Leander drowns.