FWIW, the numbers are the opposite way round:
[quote]Of the usually resident population, 40 per cent described their national identity as British only, 25
per cent identified as Irish only, 21 per cent as Northern Irish only, and 14 per cent as other
identities, including combinations of the above.[/quote]
And it still isn’t relevant, because it’s still not correct to say that one of the constituent parts of the UK is Ireland. It’s not semantics, it’s kind of a big deal.
When I say history of Ireland, I don’t mean recent history, like 19th or 20th century.
If you don’t understand what happened in Ireland in the 17th century, and even earlier, then it’s not really possible to understand anything about Ireland today.
I’m not sure what you’re thinking I have not read about, and what the relationship is to what I said. If there’s something about Irish history that is critical to this matter that you think I don’t know then please, offer it. But I assure you that I probably have read something about it.
The idea of nationalities or nations as we currently understand it doesn’t really go back more than a few centuries anyway. What I tried to emphasize in my original post on this point (more than once) is that “nation” or “nationality” as I used it and specifically defined it means something different than “state” or “political entity” or “geographic entity” or “nation-state.”
It would be factually incorrect to state that “Ireland is one of the parts of the UK”. It is, however, factually correct to state that “part of Ireland is one of the parts of the UK”. And if you ask citizens of the UK what their nationality is, a large number will say that their nationality is “Irish”, just as a large number will likewise say that their nationality is “Scottish”, or “Welsh”, or “English”, so “Irish” is a component nationality of the UK.
Indeed. After Brexit, quite a few people have rediscovered their Irish roots and applied for Irish nationality, or dual nationality, in case Boris’ experiment goes belly-up.
I should have posted this earlier, as a cite.
‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said…
You defined it as
Are you really saying that Republicans and Unionists have a common ethnic identity?
The native Irish were of Celtic ethnicity, Irish-speaking, and Catholic. The settlers were lowland Scots and English, of predominantly Saxon ethnicity, English-speaking, and Protestant.
The present-day partition of Ireland into the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland can be seen to have descended directly from the settlement patterns of the Plantations of the 17th century and colonisation. …
The Plantations also had a major cultural influence. Gaelic Irish culture was decimated by the introduction of harsh measures for its use and English forcibly replaced Irish as the official language of power and business. …
But if anyone were to suggest merging its local governments into a single county council…
?
Interestingly the UK government describes the UK as a country of four countries. When you dig around government legislation, they seem to use the terms nation and country interchangeably to refer to our four constituent bits.
They don’t consider themselves Scots and English now. They do indeed consider themselves Irish. National identity can change a lot in only a few generations, even one generation. In terms of nationality Republicans and Unionists are all indeed Irish.
You understand it’s not a novel use of the word, right? “Nation” and “state” are historically contrasted. Hence the reason that “nation-state” has a meaning at all.
I really don’t think so. Any cites to back this up?
Here’s a good essay on the subject:
Also see
In the 2011 census in NI people stated their identity as:
British 44%
Northern Irish 27%
Irish 26%
English, Scottish, or Welsh 1%
Other 3%
Note the distinction between Northern Irish and Irish, and that only 26% consider themselves Irish.
As mentioned in the Map Men video there are indeed Yorkshire people who dislike the division of Yorkshire into smaller units.
There’s even a (apparently very small) movement who want all the local government reforms scrapped and the historical counties re-established— https://britishcounties.org/
I think we can all hopefully agree that identity in Northern Ireland is very complex, and can also be different depending on circumstance – someone might call themselves ‘Irish’ during the rugby six nations, Northern Irish during the football and British at other times.
But just saying everyone in NI is ‘Irish’ is ignoring a highly complex political, cultural and social situation that won’t win many arguments - or friends - depending on who you’re talking to.
Anyone who’s a fan of Game of Thrones and wants a little more insight into the northern pride of Yorkshire might like this ad for Yorkshire Tea, starring one of Yorkshire’s favourite sons.
I disagree about Los Angeles. For most people in SoCal, saying “Los Angeles” means the county or the greater metropolitan area. People will say “the City of Los Angeles” when they mean the city specifically. This is due to the big mess of neighborhoods of the city and independent suburbs that are interwoven throughout the county.
The Map Men video made a passing reference to the 6 (…or what is 9? Haven’t gone back to confirm) English “regions”. What are those?
It’s funny how no one ever mentions the small county of Weefolk.
You’re right, I’ve just rewatched it (it’s 9). They just seem to be loose groupings of several counties each, and Brits will recognise some of their descriptions (South West, South East, East Midlands, North West etc). They don’t have any legislative authority so I’m not really sure of their purpose, except as a useful way for the BBC to carve up its nightly regional TV news.
A lot of government statistics include regional analysis, so there’s some consistent definition of them (though it might not be the same as the BBC’s or anyone else’s).
There was for a time an attempt to move some central government functions nearer to the different English regions by having different ministries co-locating relevant staff into the “Government Office for [wherever]”, with a view to exploring possible devolution to regional assemblies, but a referendum in the north east scuppered the latter idea (and the “austerity” government of 2010 closed the regional offices down, IIRC).