Explain old-time naval timekeeping (Aubrey/Maturin)

[Princhester]

@RealityChuck

You’re assuming there are only two shifts; ships have at least three.

No, during the period in which the Aubrey/Maturin novels were set they had only two watches, known as the port and starboard watches.

Lack of sleep was an issue. Old salts are renowned for being able to go to sleep quickly, sleep through any noise they are used to, and wake the instant they hear something wrong.

An old guy I used to sail with would be snoringly sound asleep in less than about 3 minutes after he went to bed. He would sleep like a baby but the second something about the yacht’s motion or the flap of the sails wasn’t right, he was on deck wide awake. And then back in his bunk sound asleep five minutes later once the problem was fixed.

[Chronos]

So, why was the dog watch curtailed? Why not just have another four-hour watch from 1600 to 2000, instead of splitting it in two?

[zombywoof]

@Chronos

So, why was the dog watch curtailed? Why not just have another four-hour watch from 1600 to 2000, instead of splitting it in two?

As the Wikipedia article linked to above states:

The reason behind this watch’s existence is that, in order for the crew to rotate through all the watches, it was necessary to split one of the watches in half, to create an odd number of watches in a ship’s day. This allowed the sailors to stand different watches instead of one team being forced to stand the mid-watch every night. The choice of time also allows both watches, if there are only two, to eat an evening meal at about the traditional time.

[Snnipe_70E]

@Chronos

So, why was the dog watch curtailed? Why not just have another four-hour watch from 1600 to 2000, instead of splitting it in two?

The 1800 to 2000 watch would eat before going on watch and the 1600 to 1800 watch would eat after coming off watch.

On merchant ships there is no dog watch. But at 6:00 PM each man is relieved for 30 minutes while they go up and have dinner. Now with full atomization and only day workers I guess that is different.

[Isilder]

Ah, see they are specific watches.

Now your going to have to serve 8 to 12 to 16 hours a day, so what if you were put on dog watch ? Well then you might be serving two hours extra, and besides if you were on 2nd dog watch, the proper dinner might already be consumed; you’d get soup… hot water sitting in the used pots.

[Snnipe_70E]

@Tom_Tildrum

Thank you! The modern perspective is interesting. My question was aimed more at the old-time sailing ships, though, where, as I understand it, the hands would have been piped awake at a certain time and their hammocks stowed.

As for meals, it is a frequent point in the book that landsmen find the Royal Navy’s mealtimes odd, so I am hoping to learn whether there was in fact a prescribed regimen of unusual mealtimes back then.

Old time sailing ships I do not believe they stowed the hammocks. The crew living before the mast lived in the folscle when not on watch or working. They stood their watch and during the day light hours they would be doing repair work on sails, rigging, or the ship. If the ship was sailing on a straight course then then it did not take many hands to adjust sails or rigging. But in a storm it could be quite different. A man could come off watch just get to sleep and the call for All Hands On Deck could be called. That meant everyone had to get up and be ready to take orders. The crew getting a good nights sleep was not a problem that the captain bothered with.

[Princhester]

I think they did stow the hammocks.

And OP iirc the reason shore people found naval mealtimes hard was that they were usually eating their midday meal with the officers, who by tradition ate last. That meant that if they had an early breakfast (and that would be very, very early in the navy) they might not eat till 1400 or so, by which time they would be (as O’Brien would say) very pinched.

[UncleRojelio]

Having toured a couple of wooden warships it looks to me that either hammocks were slung or the crew could eat. You couldn’t do both at the same time.

Aside: If, after reading all of the Napoleonic naval fiction that you can get your hands on and sometimes wishing that you could have sailed the seas during the great age of sail, just go to Portsmouth and tour the HMS Victory. Stand (or stoop really) on the gundeck and then imagine yourself there with 999 other smelly dudes. That’ll cure what ails ya.

[bump]

@UncleRojelio

Having toured a couple of wooden warships it looks to me that either hammocks were slung or the crew could eat. You couldn’t do both at the same time.

Aside: If, after reading all of the Napoleonic naval fiction that you can get your hands on and sometimes wishing that you could have sailed the seas during the great age of sail, just go to Portsmouth and tour the HMS Victory. Stand (or stoop really) on the gundeck and then imagine yourself there with 999 other smelly dudes. That’ll cure what ails ya.

Or, if you’re in the US, go to Boston and tour the USS Constitution and imagine 450-500 men and boys crammed on board. (and while you’re there, go up the hill and check out the Bunker Hill memorial).

[Tom_Tildrum]

It’s a romantic impulse that I have often entertained, to be the Doctor on such a voyage. But then, yes, I remember the crowding and the smells and the terrible food.

[DrDeth]

@Tom_Tildrum

It’s a romantic impulse that I have often entertained, to be the Doctor on such a voyage. But then, yes, I remember the crowding and the smells and the terrible food.

They have had quite a few Tall Ship recreations, but afaik, none have had the period food. It’s amazing, it’s been calculated the food generated 4-5000 calories. There’s a great book about it.

[Ispolkom]

@DrDeth

Grog was always watered. That’s why its called “grog” and not just “rum”. It also had lime juice, and was often made with small beer instead of water…

Rum was always watered, not grog. Grog was traditionally 2 or 3 parts water to one part rum (two- or three-water grog), but as a punishment, you could get six-water grog, which is watered down grog. You still get your rum ration (they aren’t savages, after all) but in a less palatable (apparently) form.

[Snnipe_70E]

@Tom_Tildrum

It’s a romantic impulse that I have often entertained, to be the Doctor on such a voyage. But then, yes, I remember the crowding and the smells and the terrible food.

As a doctor you would be one of the ship’s officers and not have to live before the mast. You should have your own room and eat in the officers solon.

You could check into one of the state maritime academies. You would sail from 1 to 3 months and get paid at the same time.

[carnivorousplant]

@Snnipe_70E

As a doctor you would be one of the ship’s officers and not have to live before the mast. You should have your own room and eat in the officers solon.

You could check into one of the state maritime academies. You would sail from 1 to 3 months and get paid at the same time.

You would also have to treat folks for venereal disease, operate without anesthetic, and you would have no antibiotics. :dubious:

[Xema]

@Snnipe_70E

When going through the Panama Canal if you get stuck on Gutman Lake …

Er, Gatun Lake?

[SCAdian]

@Isilder

Ah, see they are specific watches.

Now your going to have to serve 8 to 12 to 16 hours a day, so what if you were put on dog watch ? Well then you might be serving two hours extra, and besides if you were on 2nd dog watch, the proper dinner might already be consumed; you’d get soup… hot water sitting in the used pots.

As Snnipe said, the 2nd dog watch ate before taking the watch, so they were being fed first.

As for the number of hours, the watch section that had the 0000-0400 watch were on for 14 hours, and the other section had 10.

[Quartz]

@DrDeth

Grog was always watered. That’s why its called “grog” and not just “rum”.

No, it’s called “grog” after Admiral Vernon, who wore a coat of Grogram cloth and was nicknamed Old Grog.

[carnivorousplant]

@Quartz

No, it’s called “grog” after Admiral Vernon, who wore a coat of Grogram cloth and was nicknamed Old Grog.

That is why it is not called rum.

[Snnipe_70E]

@carnivorousplant

You would also have to treat folks for venereal disease, operate without anesthetic, and you would have no antibiotics. :dubious:

We need a like button here.

[Snnipe_70E]

@Isilder

Ah, see they are specific watches.

Now your going to have to serve 8 to 12 to 16 hours a day, so what if you were put on dog watch ? Well then you might be serving two hours extra, and besides if you were on 2nd dog watch, the proper dinner might already be consumed; you’d get soup… hot water sitting in the used pots.

???
Not sure where you are getting the 12 and 16 hours?
If you are on the 2nd dog watch you will be eating with the first group of people. The people on the 1st dog watch will eat after the 2nd dog watch.