Wasn’t Musical Tooth a Muppet?
I also like De La Soul, Deltron 3030 and even Devin The Dude. I like rappers who kind of sound like they’re casually explaining something to you, instead of assaulting you with it. De La Soul gets extra points for sampling Steely Dan’s Peg.
I’m not a big fan of rap, but as a drummer (and therefore probably more focused on beat rather than melody in a lot of types of music) certain rap tracks grab me, when the beat of the rapping overlays the drumbeat in a kind of polyrythmic way, say when the vocals are spoken in a triplet fashion over a straight quarter-note beat for a particular passage. You get some neat rhythmic effects that way. Of course, I can’t name an example right now…
Snoop Dogg does this a lot, and even lays “quintlets” over a quarter-note beat, and then he’ll split words into half-notes when you least expect it. I thought he was a virtuoso when Doggystyle came out, but I never thought he got near those heights afterward.
It really depends on the artist for how much melody is emphasized, but I think the best way to put it is that emphasis is on the the beat of the words. Even ignoring what lyrics and words mean, there’s rhythm in their word-choice, inflection, when they choose to speed up or slow down etc. It’s kind of hard to describe in this sort of top-down way.
A good “flow” (rapping effortlessly with the beat, without sounding forced or stilted) and a good beat. Good lyrics are a plus but I personally don’t care too much.
This sounds like a good thread for another “old fart” (49) to ask a rap question. When I first started hearing rap or hip-hop music (this thread hasn’t explained the difference to me) thumping out of people’s cars, it was an absolute given that the car’s occupants would be black teens or tweens. Today, there’s a much wider demographic, and I see a lot of white people, older people, and Hispanics listening to rap music. I’ve heard pieces of some of the more complex stuff being referred to in this thread, and I probably could develop an appreciation for it. I like music performed by talented musicians, no matter what the style.
The few times I’ve actually listened to the lyrics (like when I’m at the gas station and the car next to me has the music at 120dB with the windows down), they’ve been universally violent, misogynistic, profane, and boastful. The themes have been crime, drugs, prostitutes, killing, and gangs. This turns me right off. Is there rap that isn’t about “busting a cap in yo ass after fucking yo sister like the ho she is?”
Can you recommend an artist I should check out? I like complex, clever music. The lyrics don’t have to be about life out here in rural Montana, but I’d appreciate something you don’t have to be a gangsta wannabe to relate to, and something that isn’t so filled with inner-city teen slang that I can’t understand it.
Thanks.
Sure there’s rap that’s not like that. Deltron, De La Soul, Tribe called Quest, Atmosphere, Jurassic 5, Outkast, to name just a few…tons and tons. The “indie rap” scene is thriving just like the indie rock scene is and there are unique, quirky and cerebral artists across the board, both old and new.
The general answer is that hip hop is a culture or subculture that includes rap, a musical style.
Most people have horrible taste in music, and most music released is crap. If your only exposure to a certain genre is what you hear from passing cars, do the math. I don’t think I’ve ever heard the Velvet Underground coming out of someone’s car at a gas station.
Earlier in the thread, I mentioned MF Doom. You could do a lot worse than to check out his “Operation Doomsday,” from '99. He’s one of the best MC’s out there, IMHO.
By the way, I’ll throw in a “fogie-friendly” list of gateway rap records that anyone over 40 should give a full listen at least once if they’re curious and open-minded.
Gang Starr - the greatest hits one
GZA - “Liquid Swords”
MF Doom - “Operation Doomsday”
Pete Rock and CL Smooth - “mecca and the soul brother”
Blackalicious - “Blazing Arrow” or “Nia”
Deltron 3030 -s/t
A Tribe Called Quest - “the low end theory”
Jurassic 5 - “quality control”
Aesop Rock - “Labor days”
Lootpack - “soundpieces: da antidote”
Thanks for all the suggestions. I’ll give some of them a listen.
What’s an MC?
Master of ceremonies. A rapper, basically.
Can I toss in a suggestion for Mos Def’s Black on Both Sides? It’s one of my favorite hip hop records, and it’s the one that finally got my Dad (52 years old) to recognize rap as a legitimate artform.
So I guess you wouldn’t approve of my latest purchase, Doctor’s Advocate by The Game. 
Sorry, but I really like Wouldn’t Get Far, though I must admit the lyric “I done been around the world, been around the block” does seem a tad redundant. Still, it’s catchy, funny as hell if you listen to the words, and I like Gloria Valez’ contribution.
(Are middle-aged white guys allowed to use a word like “tad” when discussing rap?) 
Straight from the mouths of the Urban Youth that I used to teach:
Hip Hop: What they call it.
Rap: What suburban white posers call it.
In short, using the term “Rap” for “Hip Hop” causes laughter at your expense.
The local free weekly also uses the terms in this manner.
Note that there is a classic sub-genre of Hip Hop that can safely be called Rap, but you have to know your stuff to use it properly. But it in no way applies to the whole category.
The “lifestyle” and such claims are just people trying to get around being laughed at.
I like those Jedi Guys… forget their name, but they had some innovative shit. Sumthin…sumthin… the force. Help me out, who were those rap dudes?
I also like Bone Thuggs N’ Harmony and Snoop. Hope that doesn’t make me too much of an old Fogey.
Jedi Mind Tricks.
And I love old Bone Thugs and Snoop as well.
Peruvian Cocaine by Immortal Technique.
Here is an example of what lyrics are supposed to sound like.
The second one is more about the sound than the first, but I’m sure you can understand the first.
Rap is categorically not Hip Hop, but I would say a large majority of Hip Hop is Rappers. It’s an equivalent categorization like say, Motown and R&B, in the day.
Actually, you seem to have it completely backward. This is probably because the “urban youth” you dealt with get their culture from MTV and BET, which are run by middle-aged white guys.
If anything, using “hip hop” to describe the music tends to get one painted as a white, liberal anorak.