Explain the appeal of Bill Hicks (a bit of a frustrated rant)

ever since the guy died, I’ve heard nothing but high praise for his comedy, and his legions of lionizing fans are everywhere. They tend to praise him for his “honesty” and “passion” and the fact that he said, y’know, mean things about people and stuff.

I contend that he’s famous because his career was cut short, and he’s being relentlessly memorialized by a bunch of fanboys who want him to be remembered as being greater than he actually was. I’ve watched quite a bit of his stand-up at this point, thinking that I must have missed some truly brilliant stuff.

From what I’ve gathered, not so much.

He kinda rocked the “beatnik-outcast” vibe, obviously (SO obviously) aping Lenny Bruce. His style was carefully modeled after Lenny Bruce as well. He usually started off with some light patter, then worked his way into one of his screeds, until he was apparently fully enraged and screaming violent fantasies about whatever his anger was directed toward.

Which is fine. That can be an entertaining approach. Even at his most offensively disillusioned, I loved George Carlin for his willingness to say anything.

But here’s the thing: for all his simulated rage, Bill Hicks, as far as I can tell, never took any chances. It was all carefully set up for mass appeal, to make him appear to be a rebel, when in fact he was riding the coattails of those he purported to despise. I mean, Jesus, it was the early 90’s, and his idea of ground-breaking, dark, stick-it-to-the-man performance art was to make fun of New Kids on the Block and Billy Ray Cyrus.

What the fuck? Low-hanging fruit, anyone? Being “out there”, without actually saying anything risky? None of his stuff, for all the sweaty, outraged delivery, was controversial. Hating Billy Ray Cyrus was practically a national movement for a while there.

From what I can tell, Bill Hicks was the “dark” guy at the frat party. He always protested that he despised everyone at the party, and everything they stood for, but you knew he’d be there every Friday night, no matter what.

Yes, I keep wondering when he’s going to bring the funny, yet it never seems to appear.

Anyone? In spite of my rant, I suppose I really am interested in being convinced.

I was a big fan - saw him play in the UK shortly before he passed away and thought it was a mind-blowing performance. Just in a different street to any other stand up around at that time.

But, I have to agree that his stuff has dated really badly. I see clips of him now and it looks a bit laboured. Whether this is down to him, or just the medium of politically-orientated stand-up having a very short shelf life I’m not sure. Stand up as a whole is not really the genre to be laying down in the cellar, to be exhumed as a fine vintage. Personally I crack a smile and appreciate the routines of the great comics in retrospect, but they’re seldom side-splitting the way they would have been if you were there.

I disagree with the second part of your post - think it’s well wide of the mark. Hicks was a confrontational stand-up by mainstream standards. I’m sure there were comics around at the time who were more edgy and hard-hitting, but they were playing to 3 men and a dog in the back of an alehouse (Hicks was turfed off Letterman for not fitting the mould IIRC.) Deriding the popular stars of the day was a small part of his act, and the raging-at-the-idiocracy style he did it with was pretty funny IMO.

Maybe in the States but not over in this part of the world. Hicks was very popular while alive in the UK. He was on TV a lot when alive. I loved him.

I found him very funny. I’m not going to explain what was funny as it’s a totally subjective thing. If you don’t find him funny what can I say to make you see it?

He was voted the 13th best stand up by other comedians on a British show and 6th by the British public. If he had of lived and stayed working at standard he was at he’d have been at about the same level from my memory of what people knew of him before his death.

Hicks on people in Marketing :smiley:

Gays in the military

I have to say I pretty much agree. I think those who praise him so much are at least partly in love with his material simply because they agree or identify with whatever the topic was. The drug-legalization type rants in particular. He’s been memorialized by so much music I like (Tool, Built to Spill, etc – which interestingly “use” him in songs targeting issues like drugs and how marketers manipulate people), but other than knowing of him I didn’t remember much about him until recently, when I made a point to watch some of his stuff. The funny thing was, once I saw it, it was like “I do remember seeing this before, and it was so unmemorable then that it’s no wonder I forgot about it.” And upon re-watching, it was only worse (due in no small part to the dated references to New Kids on the Block, etc., who with the passage of time almost everyone regards as a joke anyway). I happen to agree with him about a lot of his rants, but he was just overly smarmy and patronizing and most of all not really very funny (EDIT to add: don’t kill me, I know humor is subjective :slight_smile: ).

I’ve tried to watch a few of his clips on youtube and they just don’t make me laugh. The main thing is he seems like he’s genuinely upset at the world, and he comes off looking like a petty, whiny little bitch. I guess this style of comedy works for some people, but when I see him on stage ranting and raving I just imagine some 14 year old boy who thinks he’s the only one who “gets it”.

Other comedians who go on huge rants (George Carlin, Lewis Black) work for me because they never seem 100% serious. They know how to ride the line between “goofy/over the top” and “I have a huge stick up my ass”.

I contend that your contention is ridiculous. Not everyone who likes something is a “fanboy”, first off. I doubt that J.D. Salinger’s The Catcher In The Rye has sold so many copies because of “fanboys”, for example.

I don’t think people "want him to be remembered as being greater than he actually was", they just want him to be remembered and remembered for what he did and said. I think your characterizations here are way offbase.

“Never took any chances”? Really? I disagree. Bill Hicks whole life was about taking chances. You don’t think so? Go try and make a living standing up in front of people and telling them you think they are hypocrites and fools, and get them to laugh about it instead of lynching you. Bill Hicks did that his whole adult life.

Carefully set up for mass appeal? Really? It seems to have been a dismal plan then, since he died virtually unknown and broke.

Maybe, but Bill Hicks was hating him when most of the country was still buying his record and doing that stupid dance.

You don’t seem to know much about Bill Hicks, IMO.

Part of the appeal of Bill Hicks is that he was not just a comedian, he was a stand-up philosopher. Bill didn’t just tell purple vein dick jokes to tell dick jokes, he told purple vein dick jokes to make a point about the type of people who find dick jokes to be “high comedy”. It’s not surprising that a lot of his comedy, and a lot of his commentary, went over an audience’s head(s).

Yes! Carlin, Black, et. al. – they’re funny because there’s actual jokes in their rants. Hicks always did seem too serious, like there wasn’t really a joke in what he was talking about. (Where is the line, by the way, between spoken-word performer and stand-up comedian?) Anyway, I looked him up real quick on wikiquote, and damned if there isn’t some funny shit there. I have to admit I did read most of the quotes with an internal voice like Lewis Black’s exaggerated outrage…so perhaps it was the seriousness of Hicks’ delivery that was more off-putting for me. There are still plenty of quotes on there that don’t deliver the funny to me, though.

Marketing people on Bill Hicks:

“Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it?”

That’s a rather facile explanation because it doesn’t take into account why they want to remember him in the first place. He was never particularly popular in the US - his appearance on Letterman never aired during his lifetime and that would’ve been the high point of his Stateside career - so you can’t say the whole thing is tailored for mass appeal. He was more popular in the UK and his career took off at the Just For Laughs Festival in Montreal. Not that there aren’t plenty of people in Britain and Canada, but you can’t tell me an American comedian’s work is “carefully tailored for mass appeal” when he was never very big in the country where he lived and did most of his work.

Some of his stuff is regular straight-up funny (I think Dinosaurs in the Bible probably works best there), but a lot of what I like about him is the anger, at least at the end. He’s bitter in a way that most people who are performing will not admit. It’s not always funny but I respect it. What I respect more is that he goes from there to the ‘everybody should love each other stuff.’ That’s not a commercial stance in comedy. The typical stance in comedy is ‘everybody’s stupid,’ or ‘people on TV/using new technology/in civil service jobs/at the convenience store are idiots.’ So that’s different, at least to me.

Political humor does date quickly but then again, a lot of his political humor was about either drugs (that hasn’t changed much) or Bush and the Iraq war. That doesn’t require a whole lot of updating. Ironically some of his stuff is definitely steeped in that post-Waco paranoia of the early '90s, the stuff that gave rise to Stone’s JFK and The X-Files and such, but if anything there’s more reason for paranoia now - it’s just a slightly different brand. Some of the stuff about politics and about art is hipper-than-thou, sure. It doesn’t bother me very much.

Why? Did he get reborn as something bad :wink:

Read through Bill Hicks - Wikiquote

He’s funny.

Here’s one that may not work well in terms of gaining popularity in US:

"I’ll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here. “I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.” “I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.” “Hey, wait a minute, there’s one guy holding out both puppets!” “Shut up! Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control. Here’s Love Connection. Watch this and get fat and stupid. By the way, keep drinking beer, you fucking morons.”

Khm… :smiley:

A while ago I came across a double CD of his material. I haven’t seen him for years and raved to the guy in the shop about how great he was. I promised him I would burn him a copy. When I listened to the CDs I was amazed at how few laughs there were, at the easy targets he chose, at how much he sounded like my parents whining about stuff. I delivered the copies and took back the original CDs (it is primarily a secondhand music place) but never heard any response to them.

Recently I was given a copy of Love All the People and have made a couple of attempts to read it but I find it just as tedious.

I have no idea what, or who, I was remembering when I thought Bill Hicks was funny. He sure looked like him and had his stage persona but he had killer material.

My impression has always been that Hicks was a very uneven comedian. His best material was absolutely brilliant, but there was plenty of dreck too.

Interesting take by David Letterman - Bill Hicks- this act was banned from the late show 15 years ago - Video | eBaum's World

Wow, why is Letterman grovelling so much? I mean, I guess that that is Bill Hicks’ mother and he has to be gracious, but why did they dredge up this incident at all, 15 years later?

Because the posthumous lionization was beginning. Also, note that the routine he showed had the execrable stuff about Billy Ray Cyrus in it, and thus was horribly dated.