That’s the wuxia genre for you. If you want to see realistic fighting, you are better off with Bruce Lee and etc. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is not the only movie to do that - hundreds of Chinese wuxia movies had that - it’s just that Crouching Tiger do it more beautifully.
Usually, such feats are pulled off with wire-fu; what was astounding at its time was that there are some fight scenes where wire-fu looks impossible to employ (such as when they were fighting at the top of the forest, for example) - because the ‘crane’ that holds the wire must be above the actor. That what makes it interesting for us folks grown used to the wuxia genre.
There are numerous schools of religious thoughts in China, Taoism being one of them, and Li Mu Bai is a disciple of Wudang, which is predominantly Taoist. Taoism could be one of those which lead people to believe that Chinese mythology is for the soul to be at peace, but it is much more than that.
There are too many schools of religions in China - during the Warring States period, there is a school of thought that is surprisingly Christian-like - Mohist
Kong-Zi or Confucius’ thinking dominates the Han dynasty and later, before Tang ( I believe) when Buddhism is introduced - and Buddhism has more of the “be at peace with the soul” muse.
Chinese mythology goes a long way back and is just as varied as other mythologies. I don’t think there is a central line of thought there which is so simple.
I got the idea from the extras reel on my DVD, where Michelle Yeoh describes how much of this narrative, besides being based on the Wang Du Lu book, is an Ang Lee dream based on traditional and ancient legends, myths, and fairy tales they have grown up hearing from their parents at bedtime and passed on to their children.
I think that it should be obvious to all that she committed suicide.
She, because of her romantic stupid nonsense, got Chow Yun Fat killed, and ruined his gf’s life. They had been good people, whom she had come to admire, in spite of her hubris, and she torched their life/love.
The ‘make a wish’ thing, to her boyfriend was a bitter irony. She had been dwelling on how she ruined everything, and had expected a happy ending. Ain’t a happenin’. What’s the use.
Also, kind of a melodramatic ‘farewell, my love’, using the story as a connection between them, and an explanation of what she was doing.
They showed her floating just as they showed Sean Connery floating in “The Man Who Would Be King”. But, make no mistake about it, he was a goner. So was this babe. The floating was also a way to show that she was at peace. Floating, serenely, to a death that would relieve her of her torment for being the cause of such a huge amount of sorrow.
Can’t help the next book. Next books don’t count, IMHO, e.g. “Hannibal” where we have Lector having killed Benjamin Raspel, (or at least implied/questioned) whereas in the “Silence of the Lambs” he had assured her that he had not.
Umm…no, not quite. Jen reminds Lo of the legend he told her in the desert. The legend Lo related was that a man was struggling to provide for his family and, in desperation, went to the top of the highest peak, wished that his family would turn out okay, and jumped, ‘knowing’ that his wish would be granted and his family would be okay. I was watching this the other day and I don’t think anything was mentioned on whether the man lived or died or even if his family actually turned out to be okay.* In fact, I kinda got the sense that the end-result was beside the point; the point was that the man made a ‘leap of faith’ from the nearest local peak and that the legend is remembered because of the man’s extreme faith that, because of his faith, the deities of the land would take care of things.
By jumping off the bridge, it’s implied that Jen is taking the same ‘leap of faith’ taken by the man in Lo’s retold legend. She does seem to fly away (rather than plummet) and the camera view seems to pan across the canyonscape along with her. But we don’t know if that’s forever.
Nobody and nobody.
Remember that there’s a little back-story that various characters refer to about a secret manual of techniques that Jade Fox stole from Li Mu Bai’s brother? During that theft, the brother was killed; that’s the seeds of Li’s vengeance. It’s also the starting point of the relationship between Li Mu Bai and Shu Lien.
What’s in the manual? Names and descriptions and possibly how-to instructions for the techniques promulgated via Li Mu Bai’s brother’s school. It may not be every single thing taught (after all, “Step Forward” is the same in a thousand different schools) but at the very least it contains the key techniques which make (made?) that school distinct from (superior to?) other schools. That means Jade Fox’s theft of the manual was akin to Rupert Murdoch stealing the Coca Cola formula – not only is it no longer under the originator’s control, but unauthorized people might learn it. In fact, at least two unauthorized people did learn from it: The manual is what Jen used to self-train herself to such a high level of competence that Li Mu Bai recognized signature techniques in the middle of combat. The manual is also
It should be no surprise that the manual is written in Chinese. But (amongst other criticisms of the language) Chinese is neither direct nor logical in its conveyance of ideas. Actually, it draws considerable praise for being beautifully poetic and picturesque. So, [as I borrow from Tai Chi, here] a move like “Grab your opponent’s right arm, twist while pulling it toward you, and simultaneously chop at your opponent’s neck” will be written as “High Pat on Horse” and that phrase may or may not make much sense depending on context as well as whether-or-not how-to instructions were included with the names and sequences. This is an important matter for the unfolding story because Jen is a ranking bureaucrat’s daughter (able to read) while her handmaid/nanny [The Jade Fox in civilian disguise] is a servant for whom literacy was not needed. Jade Fox stole the manual but needed someone literate to read it for her; Jen read and translated the words, but intentionally left things out or taught incorrect techniques so she could (eventually) surpass her servant’s skills.
So “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon” refers to a sequence of techniques, most likely in a training pattern (Kata, Waza, etc.). However, we’re not privy to the context of the phrase so we don’t get to know if that’s a real phrase, a fake phrase Jen made up to deceive her servant, or a real phrase that Jen read but then taught incorrectly to her servant.
A) It’s quite common among many martial arts for the practitioners to feel especially light/buoyant/energized (particularly in the legs and feet) during or after training sessions and/or fight sessions. In this regard, part of the training of martial artists is similar to that of gymnasts in that they are trained to time their movements in order squeeze out as much height or distance or simple ‘hang time’ from jumps, leaps, and other techniques.
B) It’s quite common among many observers to perceive practitioners as floating or flying when the practitioners are particularly skilled and execute their techniques well. This illusion occurs basically because the practitioner doesn’t appear to be ‘falling back to earth’ at the same rate that the average person would when jumping or leaping.
c) Martial Arts Movie-Makers have been over-dramatizing the “Wow he can really jump!” factor in their product probably ever since the first feat was filmed.
—G!
*NOTHING in the legend should be connected in any way to the science fiction short story (or movie) “Button Button”
If I Could Touch the Sky
I Would Just Float on By…
…–Axl Rose (Guns N Roses)
…Bad Apples
…Use Your Illusion I
The sequel starts filming in May. It doesn’t appear that any of the stars are confirmed (yet) to appear, but Ang Lee won’t be directing. Adjust your excitement according.
[/Quote Grestarian]
: Originally Posted by happywafflehttp://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Oh, and would someone care to explain the movie’s title to me? It’s symbolic of course, I’m just wondering who’s the tiger, and who’s the dragon.
Nobody and nobody.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]
But the biggest tragedy is the tiger (Lo) perishes in the icy mountain and the dragon (Jen) gets lost in the desert.[/spoiler]
Mubai is the crouching tiger because he is showing restraint.
Jen is hidden dragon because she has a lot of talent and power but hasn’t realized it.
She died at the end, of course. They won’t actually be at the desert. The time when they were at the desert will just be the time they hope for as she falls to her death.
I always assumed that she was falling (with style) to her death, at peace with her inner turmoil. It’s a grand romantic gesture; she give Lo the dream of his wish being granted and them being together, even if it can never be. If she’s in the sequel, I’ll know I was wrong.
And I seem to recall Jen being referred to as a “poisoned dragon” at some point in the film, although it’s been a few years since I’ve seen it.
The sequel may turn out to be a great movie, but I think it should not be paid attention to when it comes to interpreting things in CTHD. The sequel’s going to be based on a different book in the series, but the original film was only loosely based on the corresponding book.
I’m going to have to watch this film again, btw, because I just took a look at the ending again and I think maybe it’s really seriously intentionally and meaningfully ambiguous. She could be flying to the desert, for Lo to find her. She could be falling to her death, her soul at peace at last. She could be falling to her death, in utter despair. She could be flying away, never to be seen again. All of these would be fitting in their own way, and none completely satisfactory.
I agree that, whatever appears in the new movie, it does not necessarily have any bearing on the interpretation of this one. It will be a different iteration of that world’s ‘reality.’
And I don’t think there’s as much exclusivity between those interpretations as there would be in a more literal film.
I saw her body discarded, her spirit flying away serene. It is not necessary to imagine anything happening afterward.
in Hong Kong wuxia pian - nobody ever dies from jumping off a cliff. if a character ever jumps off a cliff, his death is meant to be ambiguous. in fact, it is more than likely he would come back later after being rescued and trained by a highly-skilled martial artist living in seclusion.
my take is that she jumps off to commit suicide, achieves peace of mind and her survival depends on whether they need her in the next movie or not.
I would like to point out that in the legend Lo tells the person making the wish jumped in order to fulfill their own wish which was intended to better the lives of others and not the wisher. In the end scene Lo wishes for them to be happy together and Jen semi-smirks at the thought (most likely because of the selfish and childish wish for someone to love and “live happily ever after”) and yet stills jumps blindly into the canyon. From this I gather she does not die as it is not her wish that she is jumping for but rather for Lo’s and with this she demonstrates a certain understanding that love and happiness cannot be wished for or taken but it can be hoped for even if its a selfish and childish hope.
It should be noted the last time I saw the movie I was high off my ass
Jen stands on the bridge and asks Lo what his wish is. Lo says he wants to be with her back in the desert. Jen then jumps from the bridge down the mountain, only for Lo to be seen with a sad expression. Lo realizes that all he needs to do is jump from the bridge with her in order for his wish to be true, but he simply cannot (without dying).
Jen, however, jumps off the bridge with her own wish in her heart. She floats away with the knowledge it is fulfilled. That she will finally be free.
i’ve read a few answer defining the meaning, but none of them seems right, this is the actual meaning translated straight from Chinese dictionary:
【卧虎藏龙】指隐藏着未被发现的人才，也指隐藏不露的人才。现在常指（某部门或团体内）人才济济，能人很多
translation:
(literal translation but in my own words, my english is not the best but here i go)
【Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon】Means someone whos talented that still havent been discovered by others，it can also means Someone whos talented that chose to stay hidden。In the modern world the phrase can be use to describe（in a group or a company）many talented people here，everyone is gifted。
In chinese, we like to use a lot of phrases that can be described in 4 words/syllables, these are called 成语 (cheng yu). a good example of that is when Jen Yu was fighting a crowd of people in the resturant, she was mumbling a lot of these 成语, if u listen closly, theres a rythm to ur, all 4 syllabless.
so ya, again, CTHD just means A Hidden Talent. but named more delicate and impactful
