Different patients, different reasons. You’d have to see the movie to pick up all those details. I got the sense that the insurance companies were using very broad definitions of “experimental” so as to deny coverage.
You really should just bite the bullet and see the movie. Then critique it.
[QUOTE=randwill]
[It proves that] the American health care system is fucked.
[/QUOTE]
That’s both hillarious and profoundly sad. It’s hillarious that you believe a staged event — by definition not grounded in reality — proves something. And it’s terribly sad that you believe it proves something so obviously false.
[QUOTE=randwill]
But, yeah, you’re right, if you have all the money you need to pay for it or have someone like Michael Moore paying for you, you can get the medical care you need in the U.S. Are you in either of those categories? I wish I was.
[/QUOTE]
I’m also not a valuable piece propaganda like a sick 9/11 responder who can go down to Cuba on someone else’s dime and have Che Guevara’s daughter kissing my ass.
These people didn’t get medical care in Cuba because they were people in need, and Cuba is a nation that cares for those in need, unlike the US. They got it because the Cuban government was willing to foot the bill for their care, in exchange for being portrayed positively in the film.
[QUOTE=spoke-]
You really should just bite the bullet and see the movie. Then critique it.
[/QUOTE]
But some things are open to discussion without seeing the movie. Take Moore’s feigned concern over the poor affording health insurance, for example, which he has expressed in his interviews. Personally, if I were that concerned, I wouldn’t be trying to sell them something they don’t need — like movie tickets.
[QUOTE=spoke-]
You really should just bite the bullet and see the movie. Then critique it.
[/QUOTE]
I haven’t critiqued it in this thread. I was just trying to help out those who were.
I may watch it when it comes out on HBO, but Moore isn’t getting any of my money. And I prefer to learn about subjects from objective sources. I’m actually trying to figure out this whole universal healthcare thing, and I’ve got a reading list for that purpose.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
But some things are open to discussion without seeing the movie. Take Moore’s feigned concern over the poor affording health insurance, for example, which he has expressed in his interviews. Personally, if I were that concerned, I wouldn’t be trying to sell them something they don’t need — like movie tickets.
[/QUOTE]
Speaking of disingenuous…
Please don’t feign a level of obtuseness that prevents you from realizing that this movie may ultimately address Moore’s concern for the uninsured by persuading voters to support universal health care.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Moore isn’t getting any of my money.
[/QUOTE]
Hell, if that’s your concern, pay to see Live Free or Die Hard and then sneak over to the Sicko theater. That way, you can be sure that Moore won’t get your $.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
I may watch it when it comes out on HBO, but Moore isn’t getting any of my money.
[/QUOTE]
Good. After all, he’s an evil communist who wants to steal your baby, and, who in their right mind would want to give their hard earned money to a boogie man like that. By denying him your $7.50, you’ve thwarted his nefarious plan to wreak havoc on all that you hold dear. God bless you sir. And God bless America!
[QUOTE=randwill]
Good. After all, he’s an evil communist who wants to steal your baby, and, who in their right mind would want to give their hard earned money to a boogie man like that. By denying him your $7.50, you’ve thwarted his nefarious plan to wreak havoc on all that you hold dear. God bless you sir. And God bless America!
[/QUOTE]
Well, from reading other people critiques, it would seem that Mr. Moores film doesn’t pass the same standards expected from people who post in the GQ section of the Straight Dope. And you get that for a measley $15/year…
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Personally, if I were that concerned, I wouldn’t be trying to sell them something they don’t need — like movie tickets.
[/QUOTE]
You honestly think Moore made that movie to take money from the poor? Are you serious? You think instead he should have said “I want to make a movie, but poor people might go see it, so I won’t”?
[QUOTE=spoke-]
Hell, if that’s your concern, pay to see Live Free or Die Hard and then sneak over to the Sicko theater. That way, you can be sure that Moore won’t get your $.
[/QUOTE]
I like the way you think!
Yeah, you read my mind. :rolleyes: I wouldn’t pay to see a movie by Bill O’Reilly or Sean Hannity either. I go to the movies to be entertained, not to be lectured by ideologues.
I don’t go just because theaters are such a fucking drag these days. The experience can be anything from annoying to deadly.
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak]
These people didn’t get medical care in Cuba because they were people in need, and Cuba is a nation that cares for those in need, unlike the US. They got it because the Cuban government was willing to foot the bill for their care, in exchange for being portrayed positively in the film.
[/QUOTE]
Whereas the American medical system was not willing to treat them under any circumstances.
Are you arguing that they should suffer and/or die under American insurance rules rather than take advantage of the opportunity to receive the care they needed, even if it is to the Cuban government’s advantage to treat them for political purposes? These unfortunate people should have been willing to give their lives to make the American insurance companies look good rather than make Castro’s Cuba look compassionate?
[QUOTE=John Mace]
I don’t think we can have a rational discussion about the Cuba deal until we all get on the same page wrt these questions:
What are the details of the ailment that the firefighters were suffering from?
What was the reason given by their insurance companies for not giving them the treatment they requested?
What specific treatment was given to them in Cuba and what was the effect*? Was this some sort of one-shot deal, or are they going to have to go back to Cuba for additional treatment(s)?
*The news story that started the first thread in GD where we discussed this said it was some sort of experimental treatment that wasn’t approved for use in the US, but I don’t know if that is true or not.
[/QUOTE]
They basically suffered from heart/respiratory problems.
They were denied care because they were volunteers. Since they were not on the clock, their workman’s comp claims were denied.
The specifics of the treatments and their effectiveness and need for follow up are not clear.
One of them basically need a lot of tests to find out what was wrong. He couldn’t get the tests done. With the tests done, he was able to a treatment plan worked out for him by the Cubans.
You do realize that Gitmo, is on the island of Cuba. They got in a boat in Miami and went there. It’s only about 90 miles. From Gitmo, it’s only a hundred feet to
Cuba proper. I would guess they landed their boat at a dock.
The thing that I felt let down about the film was that Moore didn’t go into how much taxes were paid for the National systems. Would that be < = > the ammount a US citizen pays in premiums, and co-pays and deductables.?
[QUOTE=Zebra]
They basically suffered from heart/respiratory problems.
They were denied care because they were volunteers. Since they were not on the clock, their workman’s comp claims were denied.
The specifics of the treatments and their effectiveness and need for follow up are not clear.
One of them basically need a lot of tests to find out what was wrong. He couldn’t get the tests done. With the tests done, he was able to a treatment plan worked out for him by the Cubans.
[/QUOTE]
This does not prove a failure of the US health care or insurance systems. If they were filing for workers comp when they were not employees then that makes perfect sense.
Did it go into other avenues of coverage they looked at?
[QUOTE=randwill]
Whereas the American medical system was not willing to treat them under any circumstance.
[/QUOTE]
Any circumstance? If they happened to endear themselves to some rich/powerful person* and that person was willing to pay for the treatment, you are saying that treatment would still have been denied?
You really don’t need an argument this silly to show that there are problems with the American health care system.
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak]
Any circumstance? If they happened to endear themselves to some rich/powerful person* and that person was willing to pay for the treatment, you are saying that treatment would still have been denied?
[/QUOTE]
So that seems like a good solution to America’s health care crisis? American’s without insurance, or whose insurance company denies their claims should endear themselves to wealthy people who will then pay for their care?
[QUOTE=Zebra]
They basically suffered from heart/respiratory problems.
They were denied care because they were volunteers. Since they were not on the clock, their workman’s comp claims were denied.
The specifics of the treatments and their effectiveness and need for follow up are not clear.
One of them basically need a lot of tests to find out what was wrong. He couldn’t get the tests done. With the tests done, he was able to a treatment plan worked out for him by the Cubans.
[/quote]
Interesting. Workman’s comp is not the same as medical insurance, though. If I get hurt while not on the clock, my regular insurance is the one that pays. These guys must’ve had some sort of medical plan if they were firefighters… Somthing’s missing, but thanks for that info!
I have a pretty good grasp of geography. What part of my post made you think I wasn’t aware of this…?
[QUOTE=randwill]
Whereas the American medical system was not willing to treat them under any circumstances.
[/QUOTE]
There is no **THE ** American medical system. There are thousands of independent American hospitals. Surely you’re not making a sweeping declaration that none of them would treat those people. Not out loud in front of God and everybody. Remember that anyone can see what you’ve written.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
There is no **THE ** American medical system. There are thousands of independent American hospitals. Surely you’re not making a sweeping declaration that none of them would treat those people. Not out loud in front of God and everybody. Remember that anyone can see what you’ve written.
[/QUOTE]
Right. I should have said the American medical insurance industry failed them. Those independent hospitals in America that treat patients for free and have no connection to the insurance industry would have probably taken them on. Do you have those hospitals’ addresses handy?