Explain the vitriol directed towards Jesse Jackson, please

No I do not. I was referring to people in more generalized positions of power. I will try to clarify. Over the course of my college career, my university has had a series of race issues. Some went national but most stayed local. The university president is a really good guy who people attacked for delayed responses to these incidents. He is quite open about the fact that he likes to wait until he has enough information to defend his actions. Other administrators had public knee-jerk defenses of their own racial interests.

I agree. Helpful black leadership gets little press or recognition with these two running around.

I’m a white, mostly liberal New Yorker.

I don’t really know much about Jesse Jackson’s history, but my understainding is that he came up within heart of the the Civil Rights struggle. He had an important role in the national political debate as the first credible Black major party Presidential candidate. The extent to which he was simply self-aggrandizing is debatable, but in his prime, there seemed to be some there there. Now he has faded into a cartoonish self-promoter without much substance, but for a time he was a true leading voice and force in Black politics.

Al Sharpton, on the other hand, I know all too much about. He first came to my attention with the Tawana Brawley mess as a “spokesman” for Ms. Brawley, wearing outlandish sweat-suits and an oversize medallion. From that point, has repeatedly appeared at virtually any event where there is a racial angle to be exploited and attached himself as a “spokesman” expressing the outrage of “the black community” whenever anyone didn’t throw him bodily off their porch. He could also reliably deliver up a couple of busloads of black protesters for enough time for the newscasts to tape them chanting on the front steps of the latest purported victimizer.

The improvement in Sharpton public persona from pure race-bating demagogue probably came in the 1992 New York Democratic Senate primaries. Running to challenge the incumbent Al D’Amato were three well-known and fairly evenly matched (white) New York politicians, state Attorney General Bob Abrams, former Congresswoman and Vice Presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro, and former Congresswoman and holder of numerous other offices Liz Holtzman. Also in the running with these heavyweights was Sharpton, who by this time had abandoned sweat suits for business suits. Unfortunately, the race became such a brutal, ugly, nasty fight between the major Democrats , that Sharpton looked reasonable and gentlemanly in contrast. A bloodied Abrams took the primary and was soundly trounced by D’Amato.

From that point, he has been treated by the media as at least a respectable voice on racial matters. He has courted this by appearing in front of any available camera and giving a quotable sound-bite. He has also repeatedly run for office despite having no possibility of winning, or even gaining credible support.

I won’t detail the several scandals he has been involved in, though his Wikipedia entry lists many of them. I find them highly troubling, particularly the Brawley mess by which he came into public view, but they aren’t really my main objection to him.

Instead, my serious problem with him is that his entire career and persona has been as a self-serving mouthpiece. Other than flapping his jaw he hasn’t done anything of substance to improve the lot of Blacks or anyone else. He hasn’t led any sustained effort to improve conditions, but rather has done little more than express outrage at the hot-button issue of the moment. Indeed, though he claims their mantle, he is an appalling caricature of the many of the accomplished civil rights leaders of the past.

White conservative. Don’t like either of them, reasons have been stated by many others before me. Both have slimy attention-whore personalities.

I just dislike Sharpton less than Jackson because I grew up hearing stories about Jackson being unreliable during the Civil Rights movement when he was first starting out. Overall, I never understood the mentality that favored stepping on another group of people to help your own. To me that is worse than doing nothing because you ultimately end up bringing two groups down.

To answer to your question I value the fact that, in my generation of apathetic 20-somethings, his antics get people thinking and talking.

It takes a certain something to actually lose a lawsuit for slander against a politician. Sharpton has that certain something.

Jackson isn’t as bad as Al, but that is not exactly a ringing endorsement. His efforts to enrich himself and/or his family with shakedowns have already been mentioned.

White, conservative moderate, not fond of race pimps.

Unfortunately, what it gets people thinking is “what an asshole”.

Regards,
Shodan

Where does this inflated perception of these guys’ influence and the insistence that blacks need, wish, or are willing to be led come from?

Huh? Did I miss a joke or are you really asking this question unironically?

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Weren’t you paying attention?

Yeah, why don’t you guys all get together and select some new leaders. We white folks need to know what you black folks are thinking, so we need one guy we can go to for that. :slight_smile:

So despite all the vilification, that’s the one thing that you decide to believe?

Your statements aren’t adding up logically. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton serve the roles they do because they managed to create the position for themselves and then work very hard to keep up the image. The alternative explanation is that they were somehow appointed by black people themselves and that contradicts what you said. You can’t have it both ways.

I’m curious about this.

I have a memory of Jackson addressing a black audience, calling on them to provide the leadership to keep black kids out of gangs and away from violence, and noting that even he experienced more of a gut-feeling of anxiety if he encountered a pair of black youth alone on a street than if he encountered a pair of white kids. If that is the incident, I’m curious what is racist about it. If that is not the incident, I’d be curious to hear about the incident to which you refer.

Have not found the provenance, but the quote (not exactly as I remembered it, of course), dated late, 1993, is

Huh? I asked: Why do people think that 1) Sharpton and Jackson are so influential and 2)black people need to be led
You answered: Because Sharpton and Jackson said so
I responded: So you believe them, despite finding them otherwise to be reprehensible?
Your reply: (Well, I can’t even parse it. Serve what roles? And what does that have to do with the question of their true influence and whether blacks need leaders? Are you saying that if there weren’t really influential, then they wouldn’t seem as if they were influential?)

White libertarian. Jackson seems about normally whorish for a mainstream politician, though the idea of a religious leader in politics makes me throw up in my mouth a little.
Sharpton, not so much. The guy incited murderous riots and should at the very least be shunned.

Didn’t he negotiate the release of those hostages in Kosovo in 1999?

The confusion is part of my point. I don’t think black people need leaders yet there are at least two men working hard to squeeze themselves into that role. I don’t even know how they managed to get the media to be bed-parters with them but there they are.

White, ex-liberal, hope to vote for Giuliani.

If these two have contributed anything positive to the culture, I’m unaware of it. When I lived in DC, Jackson ran for and won the (unpaid and largely symbolic) post of Shadow Senator for the district. Shadow Senators have traditionally lobbied the “real” Senate for a territory’s statehood ambitions. Jackson abdicated even this sorry-ass minimal responsibility and just kept doing whatever inconsequential crap he usually does, like shake down Denny’s and Eddie Bauer.

The people I admire hold down actual jobs and make some kind of quantifiable impact on society. The two reverends don’t. They embody the concept of “jackleg preacher.”

I would say no that’s not the real question, that is another question. No one I am sure disagrees that you can name a lot of white politiicians who are slick operators and who only act in their own best interests while sometimes accomplishing some good things as a side effect of trying to remain in office. To assert as you do here that Sharpton and Jackson either do not deserve all the venom and vitriol that is heaped upon them or that equal amounts could be heaped on white others is “racist.” If you want to find a bunch of black crooked politicians far worse than Allen and Lieberman I am you can if you make the effort. If you have a specific complaint about John Edwards other than the fact that he is rich and white and has a bad haircut, let’s hear them.

The difference between careerist politicians and the two guys we are talking about is that these two aren’t elected officials but appear with the same or greater frequency on camera, and that both are basically one issue speakers (except for their brief political careers), and it is an issue that they themselves can be faulted on.

Yup, as well as a couple other “hostage” situations.

http://www.rainbowpush.org/about/revjackson.html