There are/have been numerous threads here lately about Blacks. Be it the Is the Republican Platform Racist, the various incantations of Affirmative Actions, Jesse Jackson, the WB, and even Kwanza for crying out loud. It would take entirely too long to put my opinion in each one so I’ll try and address them all here:
Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakan et.al…
These people, like most Blacks are individuals, who speak/write or whatever of their own accord, for their own reasons. We did not elect them to speak for us, and they do not represent every Black person in America. Please try to understand that they in no way speak for our entire community, just as we assume that Pat Buchannan and David Duke don’t speak for the white community. This is America and everyone has the right to voice their opinions no matter how stupid or racist it may be.
Affirmative Action
You may find this hard to believe, but not every black person, and I’d venture to say very few acheived their jobs, education or what have you through this program. A lot of us have student loans and/or worked our way through college. A lot of us have acheived success the same way most of you do…we worked for it goddamnit. Please get over it.
The WB, or black shows
I’m sorry you don’t find these shows amusing. You might be surprised to know that some people in the Black community share this opinion. TV sucks! There is no reason to believe that a show meant for black audiences would have any better access to quality writing than any other show. Don’t like it? Change the fucking channel! The Simpsons are probably airing somewhere.
Kwanza, ebonics or any other things black people do that get under your skin.
Just like everyone else, some of us black people may do things we do that you don’t. Why the fuck do care?! Are you aware that this country is made up of different people with different experiences and culture? Please learn to respect diversity. Baring that, shut the fuck up. Don’t like kwanza don’t participate.
Happy New Year
Please understand, I am a clueless white person. I have assumed that most/many black people worked their way though college like everyone else. I figured my brother-in-law (who is black) did. But I confess, I don’t understand the whole affirmative action thing. What is your opinion of it, personally? I have heard both sides of this issue, and am torn. You say that very few black people acheived their jobs/education through this program. So, what is its purpose? How much does it help? What is its impact? Do we need it? What will happen if it were eleminated?
Forgive me if that’s a hijack. Maybe you don’t want to delve into affirmative action on this thread. But I saw an opportunity to ask a question - so I’m going for it!
I don’t care. I have been known to watch just about anything, if it’s funny. There are whole genres of TV shows that suck, and I avoid them. I never saw this as a color issue, I saw this as an issue of sucky vs. non-sucky.
I don’t. I figure, there are plenty of holidays to go around, the more the merrier. As long as everyone is positive and happy happy happy, I don’t give a shit. I do get irritated by hostile/angry/chip-on-their-shoulder attitudes, with anyone, or anything. I don’t see that with Kwanza. Maybe I’m not paying attention. Maybe I don’t care. Enjoy whatever you wish, with my blessing.
I would agree with nearly all of that with the minor exception of comments relating to “Ebonics”. I actually don’t give too much of a hoot about it myself, but I do feel that every taxpayer has at least the right to give a damn about Ebonics for the simple reason that is is or has been proposed as a learning course in public schools. Since our public schools are funded by taxpayer dollars then without regard to color, if you pay taxes and have an interest in eductation then Ebonics is a valid area of concern. I think in a time period when arts programs and athletics programs are being cut, for a school to seriously consider Ebonics as something worthy of funding many people have a legitimate concern.
Pretty much everything else you covered has nothing to do with how my money is spent by my government so I don’t give a damn about any of it, and as I said I don’t really care much about Ebonics but I do think that If I wanted to give a damn about it I have the right to do so. In that one small thing your assertation is out of line IMHO. Otherwise I’m in agreement with you.
Is there actually a school district that anyone can name that has proposed teaching children in Ebonics? The big hoopla about the Oakland School District was that they wanted to teach the teachers enough Ebonics to understand the kids. I am not aware of any place where they have proposed teaching Ebonics to the students.
I think it’s a waste of money to train teachers to understand Ebonics. What kind of dimwit can’t understand Ebonics? The only problem I have ever had understanding some black people had nothing to do with different grammar or different pronunciations (like ‘axe’ for ‘ask’) but with very slurred pronunciation you sometimes hear (my old drug dealer said ‘I ain’t got none’ in one syllable). I don’t think any kind of training would help with that.
My understanding of the Oakland Ebonics thing was not that it was an attempt to make the teachers better able to understand inner city youths, but to teach them to accept differences between English and Ebonics, i.e. not correcting the use of ‘done’ as past perfect form of ‘do’ or using ‘what’ instead of ‘that’.
Nobody expects them to be an across-the-board representative of any demographic, just like I’d be offended if anyone thought Dubya or Gore represented me.
However, they make themselves vocal and thrust themselves into the limelight. So when it comes down to talking about about a specific issue, their names often come up as “authority figures” (hopefully, people smile when they say that).
Not every white person will condemn the black race simply because a bunch of people like this idea. Some of us are capable of recognizing a skilled, talented, accomplished, and intelligent person, no matter what levels of skin pigment they may have.
I reserve the right to point out what I think to be garbage, whether it be white, black, or plaid with purple spots. And if it gets more hype than a three-headed camel, my derision of it increases. Forgive me, I’m a meritocratist.
I just get pissed off when people overlook the Winter Solstice in favor of these silly, secular holidays like Christmas and/or Kwanza
I’ll do my best: Affirmative Action programs are applied in areas in which there has been proven under-representation by certain groups. (race or gender). Under such programs outreach programs may be used or in some cases hiring practices monitored. In the area of government contracting, set-asides (typically 10% of department spending or sub-contractring goals applied to prime contractors) may be issued to minority and disadvantaged (typically women-owned, though lately Vietnam vets have also been encouraged to use this method)companies. YRMV as state and local ordinances differ greatly.
Zen101 please see next response.
tomndebb & Batz Maru You’re both right.
spoofe wrote:
Perfectly understandable.
What I was objecting to was a trend I’ve noticed lately of people picking these stupid little issues to establish differences between us, or giving those differences more weight than they deserve. If we picked apart to neighbors in a similar fashion, the fact that both might be the same color would be lost in all the differences you’d find between the two. My goal was to show the ludicrousness (is that a word?) of such microexamination.
Problem is people do use these things to justify their irritation with our “differences”. When you look at it rationally it makes no sense. It is exactly what I have always accused it of being…racism/bigotry. And not very well disguised in my view. What difference should it make to anyone how many silly sitcoms with blacks the WB puts on? Why should Affirmative Action get under so many people skins? Every opponent has some sad story of someone they knew that blamed AA for their missing out on an opportunity. Very few of them actually fact based or even rational. Now even blacks and women are falling in line with this rethoric. Why? Well because the good old boy white society is finally winning this cold war. You know when you hear something enough it starts to sound more and more plausible. And besides what woman or person of color wants to work, live or go to school in an environment that snickers behind their back? How much harder have we had to work to overcome the stigma that blacks and women are intellectually inferior. Well guess what? Looks like they’ve almost won.
I know there are a lot of people on this board that don’t like my opinion on this subject. They think I’m self righteous. Too bad, I don’t give a shit. The only people I ever hear bellyaching in person about these issues are racist. (It’s easy on this board to maintain you aren’t when you don’t have to look someone in the eye and say such stupid shit.) They can’t stand it because they have to look at black people on television. They hate it that black people can move into their neighborhood. They don’t like their children going to school with black people. They think that Affirmative Action is nothing more than a “dummy down” program. (Not that it wouldn’t help a few of them out if it truely were, they could use such a program.)
I guess you are getting tired of hearing lame shit such as this, I can only fully begin to imagine what you must think. It frustrates the shit out of me too.
I’ve been trying to be open minded, though believe me I’m under no illusion that in some cases it is flat out racism.
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You know, I’d never myself given much thought to these programs. Main reason: It’s never had an effect on my life until my current job. However as part of my work, I was involved in getting my company classifed as “disadvantaged” (we’re a woman-owned aerospace firm), it’s really helped open some doors for our company for contracting with the military.
Anyhow, I think the current malaise in the minority community over the program is probably similar to my own reason for not thinking about it. It doesn’t affect them.
I’ve read some reports on the effects of Affirmative Action on the individual level at places where it was implemented. If you’re interested let me know, I’ll dig them up.
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I admire your tenacity. And I think you’re right on the anonymity, a few posters spring to mind immediately.
That was the reason for the post. I got really tired of reading the shit. You may have noticed I tend not to get involved in them unless someone says something incredibly stupid, forcing my hands so to speak. It’s not much different IRL, but IRL it’s actually easier to ignore. I like this board, and I’m sticking around. Just wanted to get my opinion on this out there.
I have a very considerate drug dealer. If he says something and I respond with a blank look, he’ll immediately translate into “white honky” for me, so we can continue our conversation.
That such an enlightened bunch as the bunch on SDMB can be so blind to their own prejudges. I am surprised sometimes when someone who I once believed to be levelheaded starts with the “you people” speech. Although, to be fair, it’s not everyone. I don’t even think it’s the majority.
And the most scary are the ones who say things are as good as they are ever going to get. If only black people would just act like I do, everything will be just fine.
Hi Juanita what can I say, I’m normally a cool headed guy, my rants are much better in person.
Biggirl I almost fell out of my chair
Hey zenster, Sue gave me a cite, but I didn’t get a chance to read it yet. Can you or someone else e-mail me the particulars, Not so HotMail seems to be working this week.
HA! Stuffy…Biggirl I didn’t get around to reading the thread on “Kwanza” until after I posted here. Why does such things still stun me? First of all it wouldn’t even cross my mind to consider Kwanza exclusionist. Of course around here some people feel that way about Mr. Luther King Day. Rather than go into the whole “freedom for everyone” speech I just say…"You do get off on that day don’t you? It’s a NATIONAL holiday. So you get a day off. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth…of course it also conflicts with Robert E. Lee/Stonewall Jackson day or Confederate History day or some such shit I never celebrated or even heard of until it did.
Oh well…no I’m not stalking you Stuffy…it would never cross my mind to mess around with a married man living an entire continent away. Not much future in a relationship like that. Besides you’ve got two kids, boys at that, I’ve got two kids, two kids are enough, four is way to many. One boy is enough for me anyway. Mine thinks he’s emperor of the known universe, or at least man of the house. He’s rotten to the core.
Well, in Virginia, N2K, up until last year they called it Lee/Jackson/King Day. It’s now separate holidays, but some folks are upset that Lee/Jackson lost a prominent holiday.
Translation: They don’t get the day off on the Confederate Generals’ holiday anymore.
Don’t bother calling, I’ll be in hell until January 6th.
I was born at Richmond Memorial Hospital, August 12, 1958. Except for about three years that we lived in Indiana from 1st through 3rd grade I’ve lived in Virginia all of my life. Either right in the Richmond city limits or in Chesterfield County. Up until recently I have never even heard of Lee/Jackson day. Or if I had I’d never given it much thought. I never got to stay home from school for this day, unless it happened to coincide with a “teacher’s work day”. Sure I know who Lee is, Mom has a picture of him hanging in her dining room like he’s family or something. My middle name is Lee not Leigh. I know who Jackson is too. He’s famous for the battle at Fredricksburg, my sister earned her Historical Preservation degree there at Mary Washington College. (And the fact that he was killed by his own men.) But I contend that all these years that I’ve lived in Virginia until a day was declared for Martin Luther King I never celebrated or even heard of Lee/Jackson day. Now perhaps it is an event for the folks that are into reinactments, which has gained popularity in recent years. But I still maintain that the average Virginia citizen didn’t give a hairy rat’s ass about Lee/Jackson day until a few folks decided to take issue with MLK day. How could I have lived here all my life, had the Civil War permeate my very exsistance everyday and never have heard of this day? Why? Because it was a Virginia holiday that was long forgotten until some black civil rights leader happened to come along and remind the good old boys that it was even on the calendar. Peddle it elsewhere.
) but it should be a good time.