It depends on large part on the requirements a department has for a degree. Where I was an undergraduate, the Math department degree depended a lot on taking a certain number of courses, with some basics that almost everyone took. Physics majors had to take almost that number of math courses anyhow, so with just a bit of work they could take a few more math courses and get a double major in Physics and Math. This was quite common. Engineers didn’t have to take that many math courses, so we seldom did this.
Well perhaps. For physical chemistry you need calculus II and physics II as prerequisites. For analytical chemistry you need calculus I as a prerequisite, aside from that there are no math/physics pre-reqs in chemistry. However you can probably learn these subjects in the class instead of having to take then as a pre-req. Plus I knew a guy in physics I who took physical chemistry early. He skipped physics I and just started in physics II, then came back later and did physics I. So arguably he didn’t even need physics I but he took it anyway.
I’ll explain this using an example (me). Note, all hours are in quarters, to convert to semesters multiply by 2/3s.
The core of my Mechanical Engineering cirriculm consists of 142 hours. Of those 142 hours 15 are physics, 24 are math, 9 are chem and the rest are Mechanical Engineering classes. For the most part these only fill pre-requisites for majors/minors and can not be used to get one of those degrees.
In addition to those 142 hours I must complete 38 hours of General Education classes and 15 hours of Technical Electives. Tech electives are basically specialized classes for my major. For example I could take an automotive sequence or a Nuclear Engineering sequence that gives me a bit of specialization. General Education classes are basically Liberal Arts requirements to make me a good little well rounded engineer.
I can choose carefully I can pick 15 of those hours in the same area such as English, Sociology, Philosophy, Economics or a couple others. I picked carefully and ended up with 15 hours in Sociology. To get a minor in sociology I need 25 hours of credit including three required courses. One of my GEC’s was one of the required courses so I need to just take two more required courses and I have a minor in Sociology. A major in Sociology requires 45 hours, 20 of which must be upper level courses. If I do that I will earn a double major in Mechanical Engineering and Sociology.
That should be If I choose carefully…
I wrote:
> For this reason, the percentage of courses outside one’s engineering major
> (along with the other required science and math courses) tend to be a larger
> percentage of one’s studies than for liberal arts majors.
I meant:
> For this reason, the courses one must take as an engineering major in
> engineering (along with the other required science and math courses) tend to
> be a larger percentage of one’s studies than for liberal arts majors, regardless
> whether they are in natural science, social science, or humanities.
Along the same lines, how are US degrees graded at the end of the day? I see latin phrases like magna cum laude (sp?) attached to people’s degrees. What does it mean and how important is it?
Many colleges don’t use the terms “cum laude,” “magna cum laude,” and “summa cum laude” at all. At the places that do use them, summa is better than magna is better than just cum laude. A college might, for instance, put the words “cum laude” after the degree of anyone who graduates with above a 3.3 and below a 3.6 GPA, “magna cum laude” after the degree of anyone who graduates with above a 3.6 and below a 3.9 GPA, and “summa cum laude” after the degree of anyone who graduates with above a 3.9 GPA. Once again, there are huge variations from college to college (and it doesn’t really affect much of anything anyway).
I’m graduating either summa or magna cum laude this December. All it means is I get to wear honor cords and a shiny medallion. My diploma will have whatever designation I earn on it. None of these appears on my resume; all I’ve got that indicates a high GPA is the Greek-letter honor society.
At the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter. If a potential employer wants my GPA, I’ll tell him. Otherwise, it’s no big deal.
Robin
Starting at the bottom:
“Two-year” Degrees: These programs represent the low end of the food chain, and can be completed within two years of full-time study. Degrees and Certifications vary, but here is a short list:
Associate of Arts, Associate of Science, … There is a sub-baccalaureate nursing credentential known as LPN: Licensed Practical Nurse. It generally is a licesne earned at the completion of an Associate of Science in Nursing.
“Four-year” Degrees: These programs represent the entry-level end of the food chain, and can be completed in three-to-five years of study, depending on one’s prior background and pace of work. The vanilla degrees are the Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Science: B.S., B.Sc., B.A., A.B. These are the degrees of general interest in the liberal arts, humanities, business and sciences. The key components of these degrees include a core requirement of general background courses, and a set of specialized major subject courses.
There are a number of more demanding baccalaurate programs, including the Bachelor of Engineering and Bachelor of Architecture, which frequently take up to five years to complete.
The Bachelor of Science in Nursing in most cases isn’t useful unless one also earns a credential known as RN: Registered Nurse.
Post-baccalaureate certifications can include the RN as noted above, as well as various education (teacher) credentials.
The Masters Degree involves, depending on the program, between one and three years of study. The basic list is M.S., M.Sc., and M.A.
Some masters degrees are “consolation prizes” given to failed doctoral students. Other degrees represent distinct degree requirements, which may or may not include original research or publications.
A number of degrees are professional credentials: M.F.A, M.B.A., M.Ed., M.Div. and the like. There is an M.S.N. for nursing, which in some cases is paired with an advanced practice rating for nurses: A.P.R.N. or C.N.P.
The doctoral programs have two foci: research and professional.
The D.B.A., M.D., D.O., O.D., D.Div., Ed.D., D.S.N, D.D.S., D.V.M., D.M.D., J.D. and the like are professional degrees for the practice of medicine, veterinary medicine, nursing, theology and ministry, law and education.
The Ph.D. is a specialized research degree, requiring demonstrated mastery of a subject area, as well as original research in the same area. There is an Sc.D. which is equivalent to the Ph.D.
The D.A. is a failed experiment, the Doctor of Arts.
There are honorary degrees, and they can be recognized readily as such: Doctor of Laws, Doctor of Laws and Letters, Doctor of Humanities, yada yada yada.
Outside of the US, the MD is equivalent to the M.B.B.S. Also, there is no US equivalent to the German degree Dr.Habil.
Wrong. The master’s degrees which you incorrectly describe are real master’s degrees. They are awarded at a particular point in a doctorate program which admits those who do not already have a master’s. They are not consolation prizes.
If you have any doubt as to this, you can begin your search by looking at the degree programs section of the link I provided above. Read what’s required for both the master’s program and the doctorate program.
Note the full quote:
“Some masters degrees are “consolation prizes” given to failed doctoral students.”
I can assure you 100% that some programs do exactly that. Why? Because I was a prof in one such program. It was a PhD only program. The only way to get an MS was to fail (but not too badly) out of the PhD program.
cerberus’s quote is totally accurate.
I am also quite puzzled that so many people think that there’s standards for credit hours and such in the US. There isn’t any standard at all. Some places might give 3 hours for a course and expect 120 to graduate. Others give 4 hours per course and expect 160 to graduate. And that is independent of quarters or semester based systems. There are even places where a standard course is 1 credit hour and shorter courses are fractional hours.
There is also variation in how “big” a course is. At some places 3 courses a term is a full load, others it is 4.
It makes no sense to mention the credit hours of a course without more context, such as total hours needed for graduation, etc. I have looked over a lot of transcripts over the years, evaluating transfer credit and such. There’s no One Right Way for assigning credit hours.
Because of the way Engineering accreditation works, there’s a lot of rules about courses and such. At places where courses are “big”, that doesn’t leave room for much else. (One place I worked I was on a board setting up a 3-2 program in Science and Engineering. Since we had “big” courses, there was no room for free electives at all.)
But if you have “little” courses, then Engineering students can have about the usual number of free electives.
Back to one of the OP’s questions regarding dual degrees. The rules on dual degrees vary a lot from place to place. I was extremely close to a dual degree. (Just a seminar and some labs. 9 “hours” total.) But the rules at my college required what amounted to another year of credit hours to get it, regardless of satisfying the other requirements. So I couldn’t do it. I had spent 3 years (not 4) so far and was less than a year from getting my Masters.
OTOH, FtGKid2’s school allows multiple degrees without any extra hours at all.
And a BTW: Regarding “with honors”/“cum laude”. Back in my day, the GPA requirements were a lot higher than they usually are now. The idea of getting “honors” with a GPA less than 3.5 is ridiculous, especially given grade inflation. So they are worthless notations. I don’t include them on my vita.
At my Univserity with honors means that you have taken extra courses and some at the “honors” level.
Actually, I have a MA in Biology. The reason it’s a MA is that at UCLA, the Dept. of Biology (now the Dept. of Organismic Biology, Ecology, and Evolution) is part of the College of Letters and Sciences, which only grants MAs, not MSs.
Similarly, my BA in Integrative Biology is not a BS because Berkeley’s College of Letters and Sciences doesn’t grant BSs.
It’s just a bureaucratic thing. MS or MA, it makes no difference.
The UC system does have a standard regarding work completed/classes attended to receive a certain number of credits. You can peruse the school catalog at any of the system’s campuses’ websites.
Most enlightening, thank you.
Everyone always forgets about the B.F.A.s, Bachelor’s of Fine Arts. 
You can often get either a B.A. or a B.F.A in the same (art-related) subject; B.F.A.s are for people who want a career making art and generally require many more studio hours than B.A.s. (It’s still a standard 4-year degree)
May we have a cite from that program’s requirements. I fully understand that some programs are considered doctoral programs from the start and admit candidates with baccalaureates degrees. This by no means that the master’s degree awarded “on the way” to the doctorate degree is a consolation prize. The candidate must still meet the degree requirements for the master’s degree.
That is a far cry from “the only way to get this master’s is to flunk the doctoral program.”
…Those pesky modifiers!
Some does not equal all.
There are indeed earned MS/MA degrees: I’ve earned two of them.
There are also Ph.D. programs that give MS/MA degrees as consolation prizes. I’d add the comment that the consolation MS/MA people have typically done more than enough work to have earned a terminal MS/MA.
cerberus: Please read my post which simulposted with yours.
From here,
Link: