Extinction event required for higher inteligence and technology?

I started thinking about life on other planets. The universe is a big place and their is so much more that we cannot and never will see because the light will never get to us. I started thinking about how long life lives and how it would be hard for two species to exist at the same time with the technology capable of exploring the stars.

I than started to think that other events, such as all the extinctions that have happened on earth are the reason why we are so advanced - oil. No oil = no technology right? Or at least we could be in the steam punk era right?

I mean is their any way around this? We have nuclear power and solar power and wind power and none of that requires oil (although I think a bit goes into solar panels), but we could not have got to nuclear power without oil right? That would have been to big of a step? Was something like this factored into the Drake equation?

Before oil, you had coal as a fuel – but if you want to eliminate fossil fuels, then you’ve go to go with these fuels:
wood (including charcoal)
vegetable oils (with which you can power a diesel engine)
animal fats and oils

They may be less cost-effective, and use up land that could be used for food production, but you can do anything with them that you can do with coal and oil.

I’m not sure what the connection is with extinctions, however.

Is not all of our crude derived from all the animals that existed before us?

That doesn’t require an extinction event.

Not all the animals, even just animals – according to this Wiki article it was “zooplankton and algae” – and they didn’t have to go extinct, just had to die on sea or lake bottoms.

Exactly. In fact, you might be better off w/o the extinctions, and just letting more biomass accumulate.

No, nothing like that was factored into the Drake Equation.

Mass extinctions might be helpful in generating intelligent, but they aren’t related to oil or other hydrocarbon deposits.

They would be potentially helpful because mass extinctions clear the way for species to take over new niches. For example, mammals were pretty much relegated to rodent status until after the dinosaurs died and opened up all of those previously occupied niches.

Also, I’m not convinced that hydrocarbons are necessary for technology like nuclear power. Hydrocarbons (and, for that matter, nuclear plants) only produce power thanks to heat that creates steam that turns turbines. But turbines can be turned by just about anything. Medieval windmills and watermills already had everything necessary - just hook them up to a generator rather than a stone grinding wheel.

I think you need the right kind of fuels to refine metals, especially iron and steel – and charcoal (from wood) or coal are best fuels for that.

I thought the title indicated that the OP would discuss how (say) the dinosaurs had to go extinct so that small rodents could have the “freedom” to eventually evolve into intelligent bipedal technology-creating creatures. Supposedly developmental constraints on dinos would have prevented any chance that they would have developed such a culture (supposedly).

It’s worth remembering that the industrial revolution wasn’t coal- or oil- powered, but waterwheel-powered. [All those former mill towns in New England (and I assume old England) aren’t at coal mines, but along small rivers with an elevation drop]

It’s not obvious, but much of the exploration and exploitation of the environment had to do with finding new sources of energy; the new world was prized as much for its sources of biofuel as anytihng else; the whaling era that gave us such great folk songs while scouring the world to rid us of one of nature’s greatest animal resources - that wa all about fuel oil.

Even simple tasks - before automation and indutry, the cost was prohibitive. When every brick had to be fired by wood (or if you’re lucky, coal) brought by cart from miles away, even brick buildings were expensive.

In this day when we hop into a ton or two of steel and zip along what would be 2 days’ walking for a loaf of bread, we forget how constrained society was before cheap energy. To simply grind wheat for bread took a significant amount of labour, which is why water wheels for milling (or wind mills) were useful. Before coal was common for steel-making, whole areas of New Jersey woods were denuded of trees to make steel; meaning steel plants moved every decade or less.

Steam engines came along because coal-fired steam engines were a reliable replacement for those river-base water wheels, and could be scaled up easily. As the surface coal was used up, deeper coal required steam engines just to pump the water out of those mines - one of the impetus for developing efficient steam engines.

Oil, or liquid fuel, is just a very convenient method of storing and using energy. We got a long way with coal before 1900, but oil was just so much easier to handle. Would we have gotten anywhere without fossil fuels? Maybe; but I suspect the scale of industry would have been much much less, and so the evolution of science and technology slower. Metal was avialable before coal age, but not in easy quantities. How cheap and available does metal have to be before people find out about electrical properties? Then electronics? How chep and easy does energy have to be to discover advanced ceramics? If forests were the major source of fuel, at what point does population control become a serious issue?

As for extinction events - when whole swaths of the ecology are wiped out, it presents opportunities. Darwin’s finches, for example, evolved into different species to take advantage of food that was there for teh taking - because in a pristine fresh environment recently emerged from the sea, nothing else was already eating that food. The birds best suited to eat insects would enjoy a real advantage because they were not competing with anything already suited to that task. Over time they because suited enough to out-compete any new-comers, but to get their beak in the door, so to speak, the best advantage was no established competition.

That’s the advantage. If the environment changes - the quicker the better - then an unoccupied ecological niche - food, predation or cover, etc. - may present an opportunity for the better but maybe not perfect candidate. Natural selection may then help that candidate become even better suited. Without that, a candiate for a niche - insect eater, grazer, whatever - must be sufficiently better adapted to displace an animal already suited for that role. So ecological upheaval results in sudden jumps in evolution and rapid change. the status quo just stays relatively static.

Given that mammals took over 60 million years to evolve an intelligent species after the extinction event, this argument is not very compelling. Dinosaurs like Troodon were developing larger brain size; one could equally well argue that if those trends had continued then dinosaurs could have evolved intelligence tens of millions of years before mammals did.

It seems kind of silly to argue that developmental contraints wouldn’t have allowed dinosaurs to become bipedal. Of course it’s pretty unlikely that any dinosaur species would evolve the size of brain that humans have, but it was pretty unlikely for any mammal species too.

That’s exactly the kind of thing a lemur would say.