I’m not sure, but in general, I try to highball on tipping. I don’t eat out or get delivery that often, so I want the folks I patronize to like me. With pizza, I’ll generally tip 15-20% of the order, very roughly speaking.
Daniel
I have a problem with the difference between the stated purpose of the tip and the actual purpose of the tip, as to how tips are used in the USA.
The stated purpose of the tip has always been, as far as I can tell, to give a reward to the person performing the service, if they give you good service.
The actual purpose is to enable companies to underpay the employees with the excuse that they will make it up in tips, and the expectation I see in this thread is that one should tip regardless of the service. Then I agree with the OP, it shouldn’t be called a tip, it should be called a delivery charge. The name is misleading.
In addition, I think the system in the USA is flawed and confusing for newcomers to the country. I tip in a restaurant where the waiter comes to get my order. How about in the restaurant where I place my order at the counter, but then a waiter brings my order and cleans up after me? Why do I tip the person serving me food, but not the person who bags my groceries for me? I tip the waiter, but not the cook? If my meal is undercooked, I have to punish the waiter because the cook screwed up? If my food is cold, should I punish the waiter or ask if the owner refuses to hire extra workers during the rush hour, so it’s not the waiter’s fault?
I think I’m in apparent agreement with the OP: there are no good guys anywhere in sight.
- The non-tippers: jerks.
- The restaurant, for saying delivery people shouldn’t be tasked with noting an incorrect order: idiots. These people are there to provide a service in exchange for tips. Let 'em serve. The restaurant (and the deliverer) should point out that a phone call to the restaurant will fix an incorrect order much faster than telling the delivery guy/gal, since the deliverer’s return trip isn’t instantaneous, even if you’re the last customer on their route. But if the customer wants slow service, hey, the customer’s always right.
- The delivery people, for expecting tips after being upset that the customer has tasked them with noting an incorrect order: lazy bums.
- The delivery people, for taking out their anger on the receptionists and security guards when they don’t get tips: jerks, for doing the equivalent of kicking the dog because you’re mad at the boss.
- The restaurant again, for condoning their delivery people’s harassment of the guards and receptionists while criticizing the non-tippers. Jerks.
- Any non-tippers there, or Dopers (tipping or non-tipping) here, who think the restaurant’s being unreasonable for stating a clear policy before cutting off service. That’s the one thing the restaurant’s doing right. Maybe they’re creating a de facto delivery charge and calling it a tip, but the English vocabulary’s been stretched in worse ways. Deal.
The fact that they misspelled “flak”. We don’t have to stand for that. Fuckers.
That’s a great system! We should apply it to other walks of life.
You should tip the fireman who saves your house, and the policeman that comes to your house to investigate a robbery. They are providing a much more important personal service that the pizza delivery boy.
The stewardess? She should only serve me drinks if I slip her a buck, otherwise she should tell me to get lost.
The baggage handler at the airport? If I don’t tie a $5.00 bill to my suitcase, then by all means, send it to Juneau instead of Des Moines!
Who states this? I’ve always understood that it was a mandatory process, equivalent to thanking people when they hold the door for you, or not sitting in a stranger’s lap at the movie theater.
That I can see.
Daniel
Knock yourself out trying. We currently do apply it to other areas (the much-ignored music buskers), and it works very well in the food industry, the busking industry (I love typing that), and the bartending industry. Every now and then someone gets a hair up their butt about it, but that hair tends to remain a personal problem.
I expect you’ll have as much luck social engineering the changes you mention as you would socially engineering a change such that delivery people no longer are paid through tips.
Incidentally, do you despise salespeople who are paid on commission? If not, would you like to apply their model to firefighters?
Daniel
This is another thing very wrong with the tipping system. How am I supposed to know how much to tip? If I undertip, is the person supposed to call me a cheapskate and explain that the regular tip is more? If the server made that a habit, I am sure from what I’ve read in this thread that many customers would be offended. Or is the waiter just supposed to shut up and like it?
seems to me from the OP that it’s not working so well in the food industry. So can you explain to me why the stewardess in the airplane doesn’t get tips, but the waiter should, and why it makes sense that way?
I couldn’t make that change myself, obviously. But I have seen such a change in the country where I grew up (Switzerland). 30 years ago you were expected to tip in restaurants and cafes. On one of my surprise visits I was told that the tipping custom in restaurants was gone and tips were no longer expected.
I don’t despise anybody. Tell me, are you sorry that workers on the assembly line are paid an hourly range instead of being paid X cents per widget they produce?
You’re completely correct, Arnold, the system is flawed. I’ll go further and state the system is downright idiotic, and so convoluted we don’t always know ourselves who we should tip, and how much.
What’s even more sad is how freaked we get when we exit the US and try to navigate tipping etiquette abroad. When we’re in a country where tipping is frowned upon, an ingrained sense of profound guilt drives us to want desperately to tip anyway, even if on some level we know it would make the recipient uncomfortable.
Make that, on one of my return visits I was surprised to be told that …
Loopydude, right back atcha. I agree with you also.
It’s my very own special definition. Seriously, there’s no definition I could offer you which is going to make you think that a food store demanding what should be voluntary is extortionate behaviour.
As for buskers, I don’t see busking as any different from panhandling. I don’t view it as tipping.
Yes, they can expect exactly enough money to pay for the pizza. If they show up expecting more, that falls under the heading of “not my problem.” If they show up expecting more, don’t get it and start badmouthing the people they’re delivering to, then they can go fuck themselves and their boss is getting a call to let her know that the guy’s an asshole and may have cost them future business.
And there, for me, is the crack in the foundation that brings the whole mad house of cards a-tumblin’ down. I should be able to get my pizza delivered from the business regardless of whether I tip the driver. I’ve agreed to pay the explicitly stated price for the pizza, and now the business, rather than just openly charging a delivery charge, is playing this stupid little game.
My delivery orders run between $10 and $15 and I round up the change to the nearest dollar and add a buck. I don’t go by percentages on delivery orders, but it ends up being roughly 10-15%. Which I suppose some of you will think is cheap of me, but it’s better than nothing, which despite the social contract is what the guy is entitled to.
Oh, my wife and I had an especially terrible time with it in New Zealand. All the guidebooks said: Unless it’s truly exceptional service, don’t tip. The waitrons make enough, thanks. Kiwis we befriended made a point to discourage us from tipping.
Then again (and this was the only thing that bothered me about NZ), the restaurant service could often be best described as benign neglect, at least by the US standards we’re used to. So, when we would get fine service, we’d agonize over paying the bill. Was that “exceptional” service or not? What if we’ve gotten the best service in Queenstown and don’t know it? What if we tip and we’re seen as Ugly Americans? What if we don’t tip and we’re seen as ugly Americans? What if they expect Kiwis to not tip, but, because Yanks always tip, maybe by trying to act more like Kiwis we’ll disappont them, because we’re not acting like Yanks? Oh, no, we got great service!! What in the Hell do we do??
I may’ve missed this point somewhere, but I figured it deserves to be repeated even if I missed it: waiters and delivery folks are taxed based on their projected tips. And if you they report a figure that’s under the standard figure for their line of work, they may even have their records audited. In short, if you’re not tipping you’re taking money directly from your waiter/delivery guy that he’s going to have to pay out of his own pocket come tax time.
And you’re being a jerk.
I’ll allow Teyve to answer for me.
No, I don’t, although I note that you didn’t answer the second part of my question (i.e., whether you wish firefighters were paid on commission). You, not I, are the one who seems to be arguing that if I approve of a payment plan in one industry, I must want to see it applied to all industries.
Well, that’s glory for you. If you insist on using words in a Humpty-Dumpty-like fashion, then you might make Derrida happy, but I won’t really be able to debate with you.
Why should you be able to do this?
Daniel
Uh, weren’t we talking about delivery drivers? (These threads get so far off-track so quickly it’s hard to keep up.)
If any of these cases didn’t involve me driving to the business to spend my money, but instead had the employees bring the goods to me, it would be a valid argument for what I’m guessing the thread is about. Tipping the grocery bagger?!?
This OP is wrong on so many levels. The 2 most frequently called restaurants my office calls have a delivery charge stated right upfront. A minimum, and a per item charge, whichever is higher. It’s never been even given a second thought. The other restaurants? They get a standard 15 - 20%. We have few problems, and when one does arise the owners always go overboard in making it up.
You know why service is so good at my office? Because the drivers hope their next delivery is to my office. They know they’re going to get the extra cash, so they make damn sure the service is good. I can remember only 3 times in the last year the order was wrong and the driver always went straight back to the place, got the new order and brought it back before making any more deliveries. That’s why you take care of the delivery guy. For the next time you order. Same as tipping the bartender a $20 on your first drink if you’re going to make a night out of it. Like it or not, that’s how you get the reputation among delivery joints that you’re someone to cater to.
And let’s get something clear right now. Everyone bitching about the restaurant owners not paying a better wage to the delivery people, think about this.
And this is especially for Otto, who says he tips but can’t understand why the deliveries may stop.
The owner has to deal with those drivers that aren’t getting tipped and do anything they can to avoid that location.
You want the price to reflect the delivery charge, but you know damn well it doesn’t. Or at least your co-workers don’t. (It seems you should be Pitting your co-workers, not the restaurant.)
Say I own a deli. I have a B.L.T. that goes for $3.99. Ass-clown-co-worker can get off his ass, walk to his car, drive to my shop, pay the 4 bucks, drive back to the office, and eat his meal. Pretty straight-forward. Been happening for years.
Or, I can hire someone with the profit I’m making off that sandwich, pay him less than minimum since a B.L.T. isn’t exactly a goldmine, and hope the customers tip well enough to keep the employee around. And if the tips don’t pour in, I’m still stuck cutting a check if the tips and wage don’t average out to minimum wage. It increases my sales to lazy fuckers that don’t want to bother procuring sustenance on their own, but that’s only if the driver is willing to deliver the food. And it puts me at risk of losing money on each sandwich sold. That driver is getting minimum wage guaranteed no matter what. This is why the restaurant is threatening to stop deliveries.
Meanwhile the lazy fuck gets the B.L.T. regardless for 4 bucks. But it’s really less than that since the lazy fuck isn’t the one fighting traffic, paying the added car insurance, and filling up the gas tank.
I’ve got nothing against you Otto in this, other than trying to vilify the restaurant for this action. It’s your shit-ass co-workers that are doing it. Pit them.
The purpose of a tip is to give the employees the proper incentive to work and treat customers well. People who don’t have that incentive tend to ignore complaints or provide poor service. The “Why should I care, I get paid whether you’re happy or not” attitude is not uncommon in these cases. The tip or lack thereof is acknowledgement that the service was acceptable or unacceptable, whichever the case may be. In certain cases they can also be a good indicator of the quality of service because some places require tip sharing (particularly bars), and people who come up with low tips on busy nights are probably not dealing with the customers properly.
Since a delivery person can be equated to a waiter/waitress, they should be tipped for promptness and correctness of the order, and to increase their income as it is usually incentive-based.
Au contraire, you say that tips in the food industry work very well and make sense. I was expecting an explanation of why tips work very well in the food industry, but not other industries, not lyrics from a 40-year-old Broadway musical. If your explanation is just “it’s always been done that way, so that’s the way it’s gotta be”, well, I can but laugh.
By the way, what’s your argument for saying that it works very well in the busking industry?
P.S. Of course I don’t wish that firefighters were paid on commission or had to depend on tips. But perhaps you disagree.
Why shouldn’t other industries like widget-makers be depending on tips to supplement a below-average salary? Presumably, the widget-makers are also too lazy and unprincipled to complete their duties satisfactorily without the added incentive of having to depend on the current mood and of Joe Blow off the street, and Joe’s opinion of what deserves a gratuity.
So it’s OK to not tip the delivery guy if I’m not happy with the order? I thought I heard people say in this thread that he’s being compensated for using his own car and his own gas. Wouldn’t he be using his own car and his own gas even if the chef makes a mistake on my pizza?