Extramarital affairs - who's responsible?

Great Debates
21

The point is, in a marriage where one person has strayed yet they decide to stay together, they work through the problem and get “compelling evidence.” I highly doubt in the work situation you described that anyone would go through the hard work and difficult times required to repair a marriage. I don’t think it’s all that unlikely that a marriage that has experienced infidelity can be saved. If both partners want to do it, it’s entirely possible. Not particularly easy or fun, but possible.

To wring - I’m not saying that all affairs are the results of marriages that are bad. There are definitely serial cheaters out there. For whatever reason, these people cannot settle into a relationship and they continue to cheat whenever they can get away with it. It sounds to me as if you were unlucky enough to get involved with such a person, and I’m sorry to hear that. However, I do believe that to be the exception, not the norm. I’ve had the unfortunate experience of knowing several people who have dealt with infidelity, and in almost all those cases, the affair was a bad solution to a very real problem in the marriage.

When it comes right down to it, in most cases (not all, wring!) the demise of the marriage is the fault of both the husband and wife. However, the decision to have an affair and the consequences of that decision are solely on the shoulders of the partner who makes that decision. The spouse is NOT responsible for that decision.

As always, I’m just reporting what I’ve experienced in these matters. I know couples (my brother and his wife are one) who have dealt with infidelity and their marriage is now better than it’s ever been. They both agree that the marriage was bad before the affair was even on the horizon. I also know people who have broken up after an affair was discovered. It’s hard work either way you go, and I think stereotyping all infidels as serial cheaters who will have a hard time ever having a normal relationship is just plain wrong. Look around you - chances are anywhere from 30 to 80% of the people you see have been on one side or another of an affair. Nobody talks about it, so myths get perpetuated.

22

I find that the responses on this topic are twofold; one, from the women who take a ‘till-death-do-us-part attitude, whether you like it or not’ attitude (until a woman commits an indiscretion, then it’s O.K. because HE drove her to it); then the men who will relate their personal history with regards to marital tragedy. I wholeheartedly agree with Athena, here, in that adultery is a bad solution to a problem in the marriage but, nonetheless, it is a solution.

What most men are wont to admit, however, is that given the choice they would opt for no children and a wife that keeps her waistline the same as what it was on their wedding day. A wife that keeps her sense of wonder and adventure through the years.
What most women are reluctant to agree with is that they are driven to have children, given their biological makeup, and once they feel secure in a relationship, plum out and settle into a dullness that marrs the couple’s life and lifestyle, centering around the kids.

These two viewpoints, when joined together at the onset of a relationship might certainly be compatible but, in the long run, simply do not mesh. It is basic human nature.

This may be rather blunt, folks, but that’s my opinion of things. Call my remarks sexist if you wish, but take a moment to reflect upon them before responding out of pure sentiment - there might be an element of truth for everyone in this.

I expect to get royally flamed by the ladies on this one by a ratio of approximately four to one.

23

CAPITALLETTERSTROLL:

Out of deference to this forum, rather than let you have it here, I’ll take it to The Pit.

24

Are we hearing the cry of the Fouffy-headed, financial-news-reporting Guardsman?

Rare for this time of year.

:rolleyes:

25

My take on this is real simple.

I didn’t go after the married woman, because my ex had cheated on me, and I didn’t want to make another person (the married woman’s husband) feel as bad as someone made me feel.

Sounds like cheating to me.

26

i can’t really see myself wanting to be with someone that i couldn’t respect.

and i couldn’t respect someone who would cheat on their spouse.

i don’t know that i can hold everyone responsible to my own standard, but that’s what i would hold myself to.

27

What about Extramarital affairs that both spouses concent to?

28

So, if you don’t hold anyone responsible for anything you might want to do yourself, you can feel justified in indulging in any urge you have, without feeling that you have violated any sort of ethical standard.

Or, put another way, if you love doing evil, then evil is a wonderful thing.

Is that INTERPRETED correctly?

Tris

29

lee: If both parties are fine with the affair (as in an open relationship), then it isn’t really “cheating.”

Yer pal,
Satan

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30

What is it if one partner goes outside the marriage for sex when the other partner is physically or emotionally incapable of performing?

Robin

31

If done with full knowledge and approval of the non-functioning partner, it sounds like a marriage of convenience.
Difficult for me to pin down exactly what that condition entails, but I’d start with “full knowledge” implying that the non-functioning partner knows where, when and with whom.

As Stuart Smalley might say: “That’s a little too adult for me.” :wink:

But without that condition being met or even agreed upon, I’d have to call it cheating.

32

Aethena:

I’ll support this completely. While in college I heard a series of lectures from a psychologist who specialized in marital counselling. He made the statement that the only time he had ever seen a marriage break up because of the actions of only one partner, the offending partner was either psychotic or sociopathic. (In the situation described by wring, I would suggest that there is definitely evidence for some sort of pathology in a person who would cheat in the first month of marriage.)

Having taken note of those lectures, I have, over the last 25+ years, paid attention to the failed marriages I have seen, and I would have to agree. When one partner has clearly been responsible for a break-up, they have always displayed symptoms of some sort of serious psychological problems. Even among a few of the cases where one partner was obviously off the deep end, I have noticed that often the other partner was a contributor to the problem.
(Classic example: co-worker’s wife cashes out their retirement savings to take a trip to Europe and uses the remaining funds to buy the “house of her dreams,” paying cash, then sues for divorce on grounds of “abandonment” even though he is still living in their original home. Obviously, this chick is one twisted cookie. However, talking to another co-worker who had worked with him, I discovered that he was extremely rigid on the issues of what a wife was “allowed” to do on her own and the decisions she was “allowed” to make about her own life. The wife was clearly an evil person (the list goes on), but he, just as obviously, had done nothing to support the marriage which was, in his mind, a matter of the wife serving at his whim for the “privelege” of being sheltered and fed.)

INTERPRETER, I’m afraid that you appear either very young or very shallow. I very much wanted kids, regardless of any particular belt size my wife might wear. When we didn’t happen to produce any ourselves, we went out and found other ways to acquire kids. And I find my wife sexier today than I did when I married her 17 years and two days ago–despite any changes in her waist. I don’t find your comments sexist–just callow.

(almost relevant sidelight: When we were going through the standard “Are you compatible?” counselling that the RCC urges on all couples, we took a quick little standardized Q&A. At our next meeting with the priest, he noted that the quiz had showed one seriously troubling discrepancy. On the question “Do you think an affair would kill the marriage?” my fiance had answered “Yes” and I had answered “No.” At first glance, (and her pastor did not really know me), this was the classic example of a woman expecting complete fidelity while the man felt that fooling around was OK. However, there was a bit of history behind each of our answers. She had caught, not one, but two former boyfriends in flagrante delicto and was adamant that such an event would never happen to her again. For her, infidelity=end-of-relationship. I, on the other hand, coming from a family with a lot of uncles and male cousins, none of whom had ever been known to cheat, felt that if she cheated I should not rush to judgement. I certainly wasn’t going to step out of my marriage vows. After all these years, the only change in our opinions is that she is more solidly reassured that I am not going to cheat.)

While the third party in a triangle should be held accountable for a lack of respect for the marriage, the “guilty” party is the marriage partner who cheats.

33

sorry,
I still (14 years later) get a little angry when folks make sweeping statements like the ones I reacted to.

I have had folks share with me that it took two to destroy my marriage. but, generally, after meeting my ex, those folks say “oh, I see now”.

Yes, in hindsight he’s a sociopath (actually, clinically speaking, a narcissist with an overlay of sociopathology- best recent example, he left for a vacation in another state, driving to visit relatives, within HOURS of our son, his only child he sees, being admitted to the Intensive Care ward with a life threatening condition).

Yes, there were clues (he had cheated with a “friend” of mine) during courtship, but I chose to believe that it was a one time thing, blah blah blah. oh well. I still got a terrific child out of the deal, and, more importantly, don’t have to live with him anymore.

by the way, thanks for all the disclaimers ("not EVERYONE wring) - you’ve met him, eh???

back to the OT.
it is a conscious CHOICE to cheat. the other person, if they know of the marriage, again, has a choice to make. people don’t (in general) spontaneously combine in sexual positions with out a series of steps … ok, so maybe SOME people do, but you know what I mean… :smiley:

and if you CHOOSE to cheat, then don’t blame the other person for your choice.

My dad, who was very strong in his condemnation of my ex, also started an affair with another woman (he’s still with her), before my mom died. told him at the time that I didn’t think his timing was right. Yea, living with my mom was not ok, (she was in the last stages of alcoholism), and the scene got very ugly. But I still think that he should have left first, dated later.

34

That’s my take as well, lilah. I don’t want to sound like some loud-mouthed braggart (or some holier-than thou moralizer), but I have been presented with a few opportunities to be with married women over the years, and I turned them all down.

The closest I came to violating my principles on this one was a (very) brief fling I had with a woman who had a live-in boyfriend. (I didn’t know the boyfriend.) At first, the woman indicated to me that she was looking to get out of the relationship and wanted to live on her own. As we got involved, though, it became apparent that she was enjoying the secrecy/forbidden-fruit aspect of our relationship. (She even set up a meeting in a cheap hotel room. :rolleyes:) I very quickly lost respect for her and ended the whole thing.

My dear old Dad used to say that the way you get a woman is the way you’ll lose her. I.e., if the woman is cheating on someone to be with you, she will surely cheat on you to be with someone else. (This applies to men too, of course.)

Here’s a question for discussion: How do married but separated couples fit into the formula? Does it make a difference if a divorce is in the works? Should you wait until the divorce is final to strike up a relationship?

35

wring said:

I don’t think many people would say that one SHOULD leave a marriage first, date later. In reality, though, I think the opposite happens more than we think. I’ve seen people so starved for affection that the offer of an affair is literally like throwing a steak to a starving dog. Or a starving person, for that matter. Try telling them the steak is poisoned, and it’ll either kill them or make them very sick eventually. They’ll still eat it, because they’re, well, starving. I’ve seen it happen, over and over - people don’t get what they need in a marriage, for whatever reason (lack of knowledge, trying and failing, etc) they can’t fix it, and when some other person shows up and provides that affection and a shoulder to cry on it rapidly turns into an affair.

This happens even to people with very high morals and who are sure they’d never cheat on their spouse. Everything is different when you’re not emotionally fit and healthy. People do things that they would not do normally. Nothing like months or years of a bad situation to make you re-examine your beliefs, or do things contrary to said beleifs.

spoke- said:

In my opinion, if a divorce is on the way, people are free to do what they want.

36

Satan-

Somehow I feel that you are using this thread to try and justify your own behavior. It’s not about you. Not everything is about you.

37

Damn.

I meant:

I don’t think many people would say that one SHOULD’T leave a marriage first, date later.

38

Perhaps I missed something, but Green Bean just how is Satan trying to justify anything?

From what I read (unless I’ve somehow lost it recently) he seemed to be saying cheating is wrong, that people should be responsible for their actions, and he believed the ethical thing to do would be break up, THEN start seeing someone else.

What in the world is wrong with that? Seems like he is advocating taking vows seriously, and owning up to your responsibilities. Not cheating.

Unless I just totally misread everything he posted.

39

Getting back to the OP:

Nothing new with my opinion here…

The cheating spouse is a louse, (with some exceptions which we could belabour forever, I suppose.) But if someone cheats when they are still “married” (not seperated, not in process of divorce) then they are cheating.

The person who they cheat with is also a louse, to a lesser degree. Of course if they didn’t know that they were having an affiar with a married person, they are off the hook. Are being used themselves. But if they know they are sneaking out with a married person, who has a faithful spouse waiting at home, then they are a louse, no doubt about it.

I have heard some people try to justify the other person’s actions, saying, “They didn’t break any vows - it is the married person’s responsibility” yadda yadda yadda. What a load of crap.

I liken it (a little bit, this is an imperfect comparison) receiving stolen goods. You didn’t steal anything directly, but you get the “goodies” through someone else’s bad behavior. And you know that you are getting “goodies” through someone else’s bad behavior, and are obviously OK with it. That’s a crappy way to be. And very selfish.

Or, you could compare it to someone who has made a contract with someone else for something. Then they tell you “I made this contract with someone else, but I want to sneak behind their back and break this contract with them. Are you with me? Will you help me?” And you say “Yes! I’ll help you!” Such a person who agrees to help someone else break a contract with an unwitting third party is rather a louse. It takes two to break such a contract. So the “enabler” is responsible for their part of it.

Oh, I suppose it could be said “They were going to cheat with someone anyway.” But does the “enabler” have to make it easy for the cheater and just willingly go along with it? To go along with sneaking around? It’s just sleazy behavior.

40

Yes, Green Bean, exactly what am I trying to defend here? I think Missy read it dead on as far as what I was TRYING to say. What did you see differently? :confused:

Yer pal,
Satan

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