What downed the F 117 in the attack on Yugoslavia, 1999?
How do you pronounce F-117? I have only ever seen it written.
Is it “F one-seventeen” or “F eleven-seven” or “F one hundred and seventeen”?
I know the F-111 is pronounced “F one-eleven”.
- Bubba.
Ef-one-seventeen.
What you must understand about the F-117 is, although it can avoid detection by radar, its NOT invisible to the naked eye.
It also is a sub-sonic fighter…many MiGs and the like can outrun one…and due to its un-aerodynamic faceted shape, its probably not turn-on-a-dime maneuverable, either.
It should also be mentioned that the F-117 (and all stealth aircraft) are designed to REDUCE their radar and heat signatures. They are not completely invisible, just difficult to detect and track.
Also, despite being called a “fighter” it is really more of a light ground attack aircraft. It’s not the world’s greatest dog fighter by any stretch of the imagination.
I thought this was pretty well-known at the time, no cover-up.
So did they get lucky?
Was there a maintenance fault?
Did they eyeball it?
Why weren’t the Iraquis sucessful?
Partially luck, partially the air commanders foolishly ordering the same attack from the same direction and altitude every day. The Serbs were waiting.
Yes, the Black Jet, or Roach, is detectable by radar; it’s just harder. It can be seen and can most certainly be heard (go to an airshow sometime), and it’s relatively slow and unmaneuvrable too.
The Iraqis were successful in shooting down a few U.S. planes back in in the first (and hopefully only) Gulf War. You didn’t hear much about it because the miltary doesn’t like to talk about its combat losses, and for the most part the media plays along. If you looked at non-American news sources back in 1999 (especially non-US aerospace news sources), you could find quite a lot about NATO losses in Yugoslavia.
Various people not satisfied with the idea that a US stealth aircraft could be shot down by the Serbs have come up with the theory that the Chinese helped. In retaliation, the US bombed the Chinese embassy where they had the top sekrit equipment.
After all, the USAF couldn’t make two mistakes, could they?
NATO losses in Yugoslavia are known. 2 combat losses (an F-117 and an F-16), 13 aircraft damaged or destroyed due to accident.
Various sources claim large numbers of NATO aircraft shot down, but its amusing that while the F-117 and F-16 shootdown resulted in pictures and news obviously confirming its loss, no similar proof has been shown regarding the 100+ aircraft supposedly down.
Reading these various sites soon makes you realize that there’s nothing more in these that the standard massive over-claiming of enemy aircraft shot down that has been with us since WW1.
A common retort on rec.aviation.military to those that claimed large numbers of shootdowns was… “PICTURES!”. As proof, a picture of a SAM vehicle with 3 aircraft silhouettes was posted.
US losses in Desert Storm are known and easy to find on the web.
So then what exactly is it good for?
FDF, from your other posts, you obviously already know. But, I’ll state it for others. Reducing the radar profile causes confusion in recognition. Is it a light plane? A weather balloon blown by high winds? A large bird carrying part of a chain link fence? Electronic countermeasures are based on the same idea. If you can fool the programming or the human user, even for just seconds, your mission success probability goes waay up. Seconds can count.
Funny thing I heard once: I was at a football game near an airfield. A B-2 flew over the stadium. In front of me was the following conversation:
“What the hell is that?”
“A B-2.”
“Huh?”
“The Stealth Bomber.”
“Well, it’s not working! I can see it clear as day!”
Berr came foaming out my nose.
Berr = Beer
Coors to be specific
Coors? I thought you said beer.
I’ll meet you in the Pit, by gawd!
j/k
It’s funny the misconceptions that some people can make. I guess he saw Predator one too many times.
Camophlage (sp?) is an interesting art/science. What was the stealthiest plane before F-117 and B-2?
I think you may have me confused with somebody else? 
This I can understand, but my question still stands (not to be taken as sarcasm). What use is there for a slow, poorly maneuvering light aircraft? What are the F-117’s intended uses?
It doesn’t seem like something I’d choose to be the pilot of, knowing that a couple of yokels with some surface-to-air missles, or a MiG, pose a serious threat. Or was that an unusual occurence?
Someone who really knows will post the correct answer, but I will try to explain my take on this.
First strike. Not nuclear. But the first attack on the enemy, even if expected, works best as at least somewhat of a surprise. The F-117 provides that ability.
In ongoing struggles. Air defenses are actively searching for targets. Being able to confuse those defenses causes an advantage. Heat seeking devices are confused by the lowered exhaust temps. Radar aimed thingies by the reduced radar profile.
F-117 may not be supersonic, but it’s still faster than a prop plane. Supersonic stealth fighter/attack planes are currently being developed. Isn’t the joint strike plane a stealth design?
So, anyways, the F-117 is useful, especially when combined with other other planes like converted F-111’s being used for electronic countermeasures and the supersonic, terrain hugging capabilities of some other planes. Just one tool in a massive aresenal.
But nothing is attack proof.
Oh yeah, forgot to say…
First stirkes usually are against defences and communications and early warning sites.
So sending a stealth in first makes sense. They would have a higher success probability.
You’re correct in your post.
Now, most all aircraft and ships designed today are designed to have stealth features. The latest US warship, the Burke-class DDGs are designed to be less observable on radar. Same with the F-18E/F Super Hornet and the French Rafale.
Just like some planes are louder than others, some planes will be stealthier than others, with aicraft like the F-117 and B-2 sacrificing/costring a lotto be as stealthy as possible.
You’re correct in your post.
Now, most all aircraft and ships designed today are designed to have stealth features. The latest US warship, the Burke-class DDGs are designed to be less observable on radar. Same with the F-18E/F Super Hornet and the French Rafale.
Just like some planes are louder than others, some planes will be stealthier than others, with aircraft like the F-117 and B-2 sacrificing/costring a lotto be as stealthy as possible.