F You! (Tourists in Crosswalks)

[minor7flat5]

@Acsenray

I don’t understand why we don’t use pedestrian-activated stop lights more often for these kinds of situations. I think they’re called pelican crossings in Britain.

A few years ago they installed button-activated flashing orange lights in crosswalks by the canal towpath in Princeton. I am a runner, so I see both sides of these.

As a runner I love using them, since the main roads into town are very busy with ~35mph traffic and it is difficult for a runner to cross. I hit the lights, get eye contact, and run across. One single time a woman honked at me in annoyance, and I may have gestured to her in response.

As a driver, I worry about getting rear-ended when I stop for these crosswalks. Some years ago we were our way to church and I stopped at the lit-up crosswalk as a family with a baby stroller was crossing. I heard squealing brakes and looked in the rear view mirror to see a contractor’s pickup truck sliding sideways at us at a great rate of speed. He eventually came to a stop on the side of the road.
He then proceeded to follow us into town, revving up every few seconds, putting his bumper inches from ours.
Two blocks from the church I decided it wouldn’t be wise to stop, so I started going down side streets. He made every turn, still chasing us.
I was about to drive to the police station, but he eventually gave up.

10 minutes later we were in the church. We could see out the window that he was parked at a house a half a block away, presumably on a job. But he had taken the long long way to get there–that he had been chasing us was beyond doubt.

[Seanette]

@minor7flat5

10 minutes later we were in the church. We could see out the window that he was parked at a house a half a block away, presumably on a job. But he had taken the long long way to get there–that he had been chasing us was beyond doubt.

I hope a call was made to the employer, if not the police, or both.

[Annie-Xmas]

Twice I’ve been stuck at the crosswalk waiting for cars to stop so I can pass and having no luck, despite the fact that I was wearing a full cast on my arm. I was certainly not going to risk running across and falling on my healing wrist.

The first time a police car put on its lights and sirens, blocked both lanes and motioned for me to cross. The second time a bus swung out into the second lane as it was leaving the bus stop, blocking traffic until I could pass.

[minor7flat5]

@Seanette

I hope a call was made to the employer, if not the police, or both.

Neither. Occasionally I see someone freak out in an inappropriate fashion and I prefer to keep as far away from them as possible.

If I called the police or his employer, it is possible the individual could have found my name and address, and it seems like a bad idea for some rage-filled person to be able to find the guy who ratted him out.

[Bill_Door]

@slumtrimpet

Bullshit.
You’re driving along the street and there’s a group of pedestrians ambling along the sidewalk parallel to you, chatting, taking photos, looking at store fronts, gazing glassy eyed at all and sundry (going either in your direction or coming at you - doesn’t matter). You are a short distance from the crosswalk (five/ten feet) and said group suddenly makes a sharp left (or right) and steps into the path of your car. What do you do? Slam on the brakes? Mow them down? Honk and swear? Smack yourself upside the head 'cause, obviously, you should have read their minds and known they were planning an abrupt change of direction?

Wait, you driving 30 miles per hour are traveling 44 feet per second. It takes you 0.22 seconds to travel the 10 feet to the crosswalk. In the same 0.27 seconds a pedestrian ambling at 3 miles per hour travels 12 inches. How the fuck does that put them in your path?

[SciFiSam]

I live in a tourist area. I don’t drive, but my GF does. When we approach a crossing, she slows down, especially at busy times of the day. She’s never had to slam on the brakes for people crossing. The speed limit is a limit, not the optimum speed for all conditions.

That applies for non-tourist areas anyway too. It’s not like locals are always brilliant about crossing the road. TBH, tourists are sometimes more careful than locals because they’re unsure about what they’re doing so err on the side of caution. It’s just that when there are more tourists about, there are more people total, ergo you’re more likely to encounter morons.

Try driving in Soho (London, not NY) at any time of day. Lots of tourists, lots of drunk people, lots of people total and very narrow streets. You have to crawl along constantly risking a stall because most pedestrians seem to have forgotten that cars exist. People who actually use crossings in that area deserve a round of applause. Your tourist area must be much easier than mine if your complaint is about people actually using crossings.

@Mr.Miskatonic

While I don’t defend jumping straight out in front of the car, one of the major complaints from the OP is rear-end collisions as a result of this. I have no sympathy. Rear-ending another car when it has to stop suddenly on an urban street is purely and simply a result of tailgating or not paying attention while driving.

I have sympathy for the OP if he’s being rear-ended by the people driving behind him because the other driver is at fault, not him.

@RiCu

There was a report on the BBC recently that at a significant number of the pedestrian operated crossings, the button doesn’t actually do anything functional, it simply pacifies the pedestrian by giving them the illusion of some control until the timer stops the traffic.

As the cite linked below states, the button does actually do stuff at some times of day at every crossing, and at some crossings that’s true at all times of the day. It’s not just an illusion and as a pedestrian you don’t always know which times it will be effective and which not.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

@SciFiSam

I have sympathy for the OP if he’s being rear-ended by the people driving behind him because the other driver is at fault, not him.

True enough, but he is blaming the wrong people.

[CoastalMaineiac]

@MikeF

Coastal - you have also answered my question with a question. Please provide an example of what you are talking about. You mean like I’m waiting to turn left and the guy coming the other way insists on not stopping to allow me do do so? Why would that bother me? It defies common sense to turn in front of him if it is going to make him jump on the brakes.

I was referring to any situation where you have to yield the right-of-way. You have no problem with people in motor vehicles taking the right-of-way when it is supposed to be theirs, but it’s a problem when they’re walking. The principle is the same at either place, you don’t have the right-of-way, so why would you expect that you get to keep moving by default?

Go back to that blind intersection I linked. The speed limit on that road is 25 miles per hour. Would you just assume you could keep going 25 miles per hour because you couldn’t see anything? That’s the logic you seem to be using on crosswalks.

@MikeF

Suppose they changed the law to say cars turning left have the right of way over oncoming traffic? I could use all of your (collective) arguments to justify why there would be nothing wrong with this. Except such a law would defy common sense. Just like it defies common sense to walk out in to traffic. But you have the right-of-way, so go ahead.

There is a spot on Route 1 in Camden, Maine that gives the right-of-way to left-turning traffic. It is a pain in the ass, but I don’t know that it defies common sense. People see the stop sign, and presumably realize that they don’t have the right-of-way. Just as people should see a plainly marked crosswalk and realize that they don’t have the right-of-way there, either.

@MikeF

I wholly agree that there is nothing that ensures that pedestrians are aware of anything. That is exactly my point. I guess being on foot relieves you of any responsibility for your own safety or the impact of your actions on the rest of the world.

If a driver gets broadsided at an intersection by someone who runs a stop or yield sign, do you feel the one who was hit bears responsibility for that crash, or the one who was required to yield the right-of-way, but didn’t? What if it was a blind intersection?

If you have any yield situation, whether it is to vehicles or pedestrians, you don’t have the right to proceed until you are sure the way is clear of what or whomever you must yield to.

The pedestrian always gets the worst end of it if he gets hit, wouldn’t you rather be a bit more cautious if it would prevent something like that from happening?

[chizzuk]

The thing that makes me most squirrelly as a pedestrian is crossing either a driveway or a street when there’s a car waiting to turn right. Because often they’re so busy trying to find a gap in traffic that they don’t think to check back to the right again before making the turn. I try to cross behind them if I’m not sure they’ve seen me.

Though I did have one situation where I was approaching a shopping center driveway where a car was trying to turn right out onto the main road. It was rush hour, and thus there were basically no gaps in the traffic on said main road. As I was walking, I observed a space opening up, and realized that I was going to be crossing in front of this guy at the exact time as the only visible gap in traffic for a mile down the road, and that the 4-5 seconds it would take me to get clear would make him miss it. So I stopped walking, made eye contact with the driver (who had already clearly seen me and was waiting for me to pass), and motioned for him to go ahead and make his turn in front of me. Sure, I had the right of way, but it cost me 2 seconds and saved him probably 2 minutes of sitting and praying for another to open up. Why not?

[BigT]

@CoastalMaineiac

The pedestrian always gets the worst end of it if he gets hit, wouldn’t you rather be a bit more cautious if it would prevent something like that from happening?

This is the entire reason why the pedestrian should be more careful. A car cannot stop on a dime, but a pedestrian can. The fact that they have the right of way doesn’t override physics.

There really are only two positions here. People should look before crossing, which the OP claims people were not doing, or those people are fucking idiots who will eventually get hurt.

You can go on about the right of way all you want, but the right of way is not a license to not check. In all your scenarios, if the driver didn’t look, then yes, it is partly their fault. If they looked but couldn’t stop in time, that’s different. (And we tend to assume that’s the case, since most drivers don’t have a death wish.) But a pedestrian can look and can stop if a driver does not have time to stop.

If a pedestrian walks out in front of a car that cannot stop in time, then, yes, it is the pedestrian’s fault, because the pedestrian was actually in position to change events, while the driver wasn’t. The law doesn’t change how the physical universe functions.

There is literally no defensible position that a pedestrian should be able to not look while crossing the road, no matter what the law says. That’s what the OP is griping about. People who expect the law to somehow protect them so they don’t have to look out for themselves.

I can only guess that a large number of you almost never cross streets. Because it’s flipping obvious when you are out there. You don’t cross unless you can see you have enough room or you see the cars already stopping because they’ve seen you on the crosswalk, waiting to start across.

It’s not like this is some odd law in only one location. It is the law everywhere. Pedestrians have the right of way in crosswalks. They still must always look before crossing. If either party fails in their duty, then that party is to blame.

The car guy may get a ticket, but the other guy is injured or dead. Fat lot of good the right of way did you. If you want to stay alive and uninjured, you have a responsibility to do what you can to stay that way.

[Ruken]

@BigT

If a pedestrian walks out in front of a car that cannot stop in time, then, yes, it is the pedestrian’s fault.

This cannot happen at a crosswalk if the driver is doing his or her job. Look at the sidewalk before driving across a crosswalk. It’s not hard.

[BigT]

@Bill_Door

Wait, you driving 30 miles per hour are traveling 44 feet per second. It takes you 0.22 seconds to travel the 10 feet to the crosswalk. In the same 0.27 seconds a pedestrian ambling at 3 miles per hour travels 12 inches. How the fuck does that put them in your path?

You are neglecting the size of the pedestrians themselves, and are quite likely underestimating their turning speed. People may average around 3 miles per hour, but they often turn quicker.

Furthermore, even if you wouldn’t actually hit the pedestrians, it’s really hard to tell when it’s that close, so a good driver is going to try and stop anyways, even though the 0.12 to 0.25 seconds it takes to respond will likely mean that the stop will happen over the crosswalk.

Not that you should ever drive 30 mph in a highly trafficked pedestrian area. Think school crossing zones: somewhere between 15-25 mph is much better. I’m surprised tourist areas don’t have the same speed limits that my town does in the residential areas. Some places even have the speed limit drop to 10mph.

You could even have those signs that say “Speed limit X when pedestrians are present” if you don’t want to have it set all the time. I’ve seen plenty of those around schools in smaller towns.

Expecting people to slow down without explicit instructions to do so is a fools’ errand. Giving pedestrians the right of way won’t make people slow down. No wonder the OP has to worry about being rear ended.