Fact or Fiction: The Extra Leg Muscle in African Americans

Great Debates
41

After Jesse Owens pulled off the gold in the Olympics, a Nazi bigwig allegedly said that this sort of competition was innately unfair, since it was nothing other than having a man run a race against a gazelle or wrestle a bear.

That being said, there is a very common irrational, bigoted, and racist prejudice that blacks are somehow “innately” better than are whites at athletics. The “evidence” they cite is that there are so many more skilled black atheletes.

Does that mean that we can likewise claim that whites are innately better at being major political leaders, scientists, and successful businessmen than are blacks?

42

Hey, I heard a rumor out there that whites dominate in the business world and politics because they are have innately more efficient brains than do other races.

43

Of course, blacks do NOT make up a disproportionate number of successful athletes. They simply don’t. They are overrpresented in some sports - sprinting, football, basketball, a few others. On the other hand, they are underrepresented in many others, such as hockey, tennis, golf, or those Strong Man competitions that are always being won by some guy named “Lars.”

Even within sports with the same basic athletic needs you see this difference. Many Olympic sprinters are black, but very few Olympic speed skaters are black. Blacks make up 85% of the NBA, but volleyball, which also requires tall, strong people who can jump really high, is not dominated by blacks.

44

I did not “throw around” any sort of statement without evidence. I researched my post for an hour before posting. Look at the post again. You will see the following sources of evidence: expert opinion of a qualified expert, standard reference works, and a literature search in standard sources.

Maybe that last point wasn’t clear, but it is included the phrase “There is no research indexed in peer-reviewed medical journals”. I looked not only though Medline, but also through the paper Science Citation Index for racial variations on the gamellus and peroneus. I did not get any hits in either index, which justifies my statement. I am quite willing to concede that I am not infallible and may have missed something; if you find such a reference, I withdraw that point.

WRT your cite, the link is broken so I can’t follow it. I did find Goggle’s cache of it, however. No doubt this is how you found the referring item. The reference itself seems to be to a 1948 French anatomy text. Without this reference, we can’t determine if a 2% delta is statistically significant. Unless you were to get the actual reference and were prepared to discuss it, this one Google-derived quote is not significant.

No matter, its significance does not change my statement. Googling a phrase is not conducting a medical literature search. A 55-year old anatomy text is not a peer-reviewed medical journal. In fact, such texts are rarely subjected to the same review process that journal articles are. I stand by my contribution to the fight.

45

I believe that it is a metter of genetic variation.

I’m going to have to Google for the article that I read but it postulated that Africans have a greater variation of genetic components than other areas. In other words, the average speed of sprinters from all over the globe might be the same, but Africans will win the race because thier bell curve is more broadly distributed. Africans might also have the slowest poeple in the race from that same distribution.

That being said, culture and training are nearly overwhelming contributions.

46

Re: the genetic pre-disposition to fast-twitch vs. slow-twitch…

some studies have shown that in some cases, extreme training can develop fast twitch fibers later in life(not known whether the subjects are converting slow-twitch, or just increasing the number of the other)…

I studied kinesiology/fitness therapy in college, but I had planned(if I attended grad school) to try to start a study on whether or not muscle fiber type could be more easily changed at younger ages…which would explain why an impoverished youngster who runs and rides a bike everywhere develops more fast twitch fibers while someone who is less active may develop more slow twitch…I am just very much strongly against the idea that a certain race is genetically better than another at certain sports…

If you are going to say that blacks are genetically better jumpers or sprinters, then there should be NO white athletes who are leapers, or good sprinters, and this is clearly not true.

47

Argh! I tried to steer this thread away from the agrument that “black people are good at sports” because a) “black people” is an artificial distinction based merely on skin colour having little to do with actual regional ethnicity (i think quercus said it best) and b) sports is a very broad distinction that expertice has as much to do with the childhood environment as it does genetic makeup.

I am going to have to disagree, to an extent, with t-bonham and askia. Certain ethnic groups have certain minor physiological differences. it’s absurd to think that hair might be different, or eye shape, or skin tone, but once you go inside everything is exactly the same for everybody. Close, but not exact. And some of it is inherited. For example, the people living in the Andes and the people living in the Himalayas both have very diffferent physiological ways of adapting to with the high altitude in which they live. Because of this, we have to assume this isn’t a childhhod response to growing up in high altitudes, and there is a genetic factor involved. In the same way, it appears that West Africans have the best make-up for sprinting. the main reason I’m disagreeing with the contention that “black people” are better athletes due to their socio-economic background is that its been my understanding that while african-americans then to be poorer, if you go by the numbers there as many if not more poor white people in the U.S. than black. So for the sports listed as cheap and easy for the impoverished to get into, there should be as many whites as blacks. And at the grassroots level, I’m sure there are. And I agree that every ethnic group has signifigant gentic variation within it. The average black person, average white person and average purple person are all probably the same speed. But saying that my hypothesis means no whites are good athletes is ignoring the nature of sport. We’re not dealing with averages, we’re dealing with extremes.

48

Okay, let’s deal with extremes. Let’s deal with extremes in educational, political, and business success. Now, I’m not saying that no blacks are good in school, in governing countries, or in running major business concerns, but I’m not dealing with averages, I’m dealing with extremes, and the extremes say that whites MUST have some sort of “genetic edge” in these and the majority of other intellectual pursuits, since they have and still maintain world dominance.

Go look up “Argument from necessity” under “fallacy”.

49

As always, this subject is turning into a debate. On the assumption that the thread will be moved to GD, I’ll respond.

Are you saying that the fact that environmental factors have an impact on success at sprinting gives rise to an inference that genetic factors have no impact?

**

Ok, so is it your position that observed racial disparities in sprinting results are purely the result of cultural/social/socio-economic differences?

50

I kind of doubt that. Sports that dont require lots of physical ability arent dominated by one particular race. Bowling does not require tons of physical ability. Pool, darts, golf, bowling, chess, etc…, anyone of any race can dominate these. Blacks would NOT dominate bowling.

Given that lots of inner city blacks spend lots of time on the tables, why aren`t they dominating the billiards world?

51

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying genetics is the end-all, be-all or making fun of it as inconsequential?

Of course genetics is important. Pygmies are never going to set records in the 100m hurdles.

52

On the Olympics on TV, all the sprinters have very similar body proportions and musculature. The 10,000-meters are more similar to each other than they are to the sprinters.

Same for the basketball players, the wrestlers, the swimmers, the gymnasts, etc.

Note how it groups by specialty, not by race. Group a given race together and see the dissimilarity within the group.

53

Oversimplifying the poster’s argument to make an absurd comparison like that does not help matters. Go look up “straw man” under “fallacy”.

54

There are different types of muscle fiber, some more suited to endurance activities and some more suited to short anaerobic burst activity.

Distance runners, for instance, have more “slow” muscle tissue, which is suited to endurance activities. Sprinters have more “fast” muscle tissue which is suited to most ball sports, etc.

http://www.kccall.com/News/2002/0621/Sports/075.html is a very interesting article that chronicles some of the more common myths and realities of human morphology.

55

lucwarm. I don’t believe in racial superiority… but I do believe certain diseases, career inclinations and other dispositions are “in the blood” and that inherited multiple intelligences account for certain knacks people have at doing what they do best. Like separated triplets and twins who inexplicably end up in the same occupation and like the same beer, or families of artists, engineers, musicians, etc.

I believe that nurture, not nature, largely accounts for most outcomes in people’s lives and that nature, at best, tends to impose limits on certain things people can do, not their potential.

Most people who emphasize black players’ “natural athleticism” tend to discount (or even dismiss) the thousands of hours of training, practice, dedication, drive and discipline they and their families invest in themselves make them top athletes.

The difference in the times of world-class qualifiying runners – whether they’re Japanese, West African, American, Canadian, whatever – is measured in mere seconds. Which is more likely an explanation for these merely slightly faster running speeds: undocumented mystery mythical muscles, or growing up poor running all the damn time in a high altitude in a hot-ass climate and pushing themselves to run harder in order to achieve more success?

whuckfistle. What city do you live in where “lots of inner city blacks” spend “lots of time on the tables?” Better yet, what decade do you live in? Recreational pool is a game of my father’s generation.

Unlike a bowling ball, a quality billiard table is butt-ass expensive to own and maintain. It’s something homeowners tend to have, assuming they have a room or garage they can put it in. “Lots” of black billiard players isn’t possibly more than a few hundred in any given metroplitan city compared to the thousands of black men who actively participate in b-ball as players in those same cities. If my immediate family is any indication, most people don’t bother to learn to shoot pool until they’re in their teens or later. And it’s a game that’s played when you’re out drinking – and since when does alcohol improve performance?

Bowling, yeah. Billiards, no. Golf, no. But pick another game.

56

Askia I don’t want to make this into a debate but I strongly disagree with you. Whenever I am in the Far East, I am struck by the fact that everyone is much smaller than I am (I am 6’ 2").

Do I have a ‘certain disease, career inclination and other dispositions in the blood’ that makes me taller than Asians? Would I, in general, be able to jump higher than the average Asian?

By making this statement, you are discounting (or even dismissing) the thousands of hours of training, practice, dedication, drive and discipline that WHITE people and their families invest in themselves to become top athletes.

The fact is there is clearly a difference that is not simply about ‘mind over matter’. The question of whether there is an ‘extra muscle’ is still unresolved on this thread although it seems highly unlikely.

57

“Extra muscles” would be documented in anatomy textbooks, as are other variations. Coroners would know they could ascertain the race of a burn victim by dissecting the leg.

Absence of this documentation anywhere, given how thoroughly anatomy has been researched since the days of Burke and Hare, would be evidence of absence of this anatomical feature.

Someone making this surprising claim needs to produce the evidence for it.

58

It’s more likely cultural, social, and economic.

I’m gonna try not to stick my foot in my mouth, here, but bear with me. I’m going to make some broad social generalizations.

Black people are, on the whole, poorer than white people. Why? Some would attribute it to lack of educational opportunities, which we can chalk up to being poor in the first place. (We’re oversimplifying, yes.)

In America (yeah, elsewhere, too), we often idolize the rich and famous. Some of the people we admire include successful businessfolk, entertainers, and sports stars. Poor education often closes business doors to blacks. Hollywood and TV lean heavily toward selecting white performers, because (as noted) white people on the whole have more money.

This leaves sports. Poor people have, in recent decades, gotten the idea that succeeding in sports is a good way out of poverty. Parents raise their kids to be athletes in hopes that it’ll lead to a better life for future generations. It doesn’t really work - the vast majority of people who try to get into pro sports don’t succeed, often leaving 'em with no marketable skills.

Because poverty tends to be a greater issue among blacks than whites, you see a lot more blacks trying to succeed at sports. Therefore, you get more black athletes who do succeed - and even more who do not. This lends (false) credence to the concept that blacks have greater natural athletic ability.

White supremacist assholes often turn that perception on its ear by claiming that whites have greater intellectual capability. This is equally nonsense.

I’ll let Michener do my citations for me and point those who are interested at his nonfiction Sports in America, a harsh and thorough look at the issues surrounding modern sports.

59

Well, the word “largely” is a bit vague, but I think that most sensible people would agree that outcomes are a result of nature AND nurture. Particularly in the cases of folks who are extremely successful at some pursuit.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that to be a world-class anything, you need to be born with lots of talent and combine that with years of training.

**

Want to give me cites on that? I’ve seen the phrase “natural athleticism” used as a strawman, but I don’t recall seeing it advanced seriously. And I doubt that anyone seriously disagrees that the vast vast majority of top athletes have put in lots and lots of training. But go dig up some quotes if you can. I might be wrong.

Interesting – you combine a strawman argument with a false dichotomy.

And you haven’t bothered to answer my question:

Ok, so is it your position that observed racial disparities in sprinting results are purely the result of cultural/social/socio-economic differences?

60

I suspect that in the United States, there are about as many whites living in poverty as blacks, owing to the fact that whites significantly outnumber blacks.

I’ll try to dig up a cite if you want, but the reality is that there are a lot of poor white people out there.

**

If this theory were the only thing going on, you’d expect blacks to dominate javelin throwing the same way they dominate the 100 yard sprint. They don’t.