Is that the point? Didn’t he say that the liberals have to start lying and cheating just like the conservatives, or the conservatives would win? Isn’t that another way of saying that democracy doesn’t work, because liars always win?
If you really think liars always win, then you are endorsing authoritarian government. It’s not exactly complicated.
Thanks, Lemur. That’ pretty much the point I was trying to make.
When either side complains about the other having an unfair advantage, it’s almost always a thinly vailed attack on democracy itself. It assumes that people are too stupid to vote for what their best interests are.
This seems to be more Great Debates territory, so I’m launching this over there, from IMHO.
Well, now that we are here I should point out that one side’s mantra is to claim that mainstream media is unfair to them and liberal.
What is worse is that in itself is a lie that is entrenched in their narratives.
You are actually telling me that Liberal never ever lie? That every word that comes out of a Liberal’s mouth is the God’s honest truth? Do you have cite for that?
Mods, I am not trying to argue with the OP, but he is stating that Conservatives constantly lie, while implying that Liberals always tell the truth. Since this is the Straight Dope, I would assume he has some sort of proof for his statement. (Mods, thought I was in GQ, but just noticed that this is GD. So I guess I am arguing with him)
Of course the OP might be right. Searching my memory I am having much difficulty recalling any Democrat politician lying, For I am positive that he never had sex with THAT woman. And of course he goes to the standard liberal talking point that Fox News constantly ignores facts and reports facts that don’t exist. Have you any documentation that proves that CNN or any other news organization completely tells the truth all the time every time? A quick Google search under the term “has CNN ever lied about facts” brings up over 23 million hits. Seems like a lot for a news organization that never lies. (Yes, I know that the OP never said that CNN doesn’t lie, but we can assume that since he only mentioned FOX News as lying.)
The bottom line is all politicians lie and stretch the truth to bolster their positions. To imply that one side is morally superior to the other is in itself a lie.
Meh, I don’t think they are morally superior, but as I pointed out before, it is mostly an accident of history that most positions of the Republicans regarding science based topics are not correct. Eventually one has to look at the evidence to see who is more on the side of the truth, as pointed by the author cited on my early post, Republicans are the ones that take the levels of this immorality to 11. And Google vomits * will not do, CNN is not seen by liberals as belonging to them or that they can control them like the right does with FOX.
“The truth will out.”
“He’s a man of his word.”
These beliefs haven’t gone anywhere. All my life I’ve heard people say that they voted for, to them, the lesser of two evils.
People aren’t so stupid that they buy into anybody’s rhetoric completely. They just weigh which untruths they can live with the best, I think.
You are pretty much proving his point; it is a fact that he did not imply “that Liberals always tell the truth”. Nor did the post you responded to say “every word that comes out of a Liberal’s mouth is the God’s honest truth”.
Always true? So, you think the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks were morally equivalent? Is 1% lying equivalent to 99% lying?
They may be convinced by the liars that they are voting their best interests, but aren’t. For instance, voting for representatives who refuse to raise taxes on the rich while their services get cut. And out of politics, do you deny that people believe in a lot of the religious lies they are told?
People believe all sorts of nonsense. The solution is education, not more lies.
People are indeed too stupid to vote for their own best interests. Witness the trailer trash that came out of the woodwork to rally against a modest health care reform package after they swallowed the whoppers about death panels. Witness the knee jerk response to any discussion of raising the tax rates on the wealthy. The average voter is a moron and if you want him to vote your way, you have to treat him as such and lie your ass off to him. Taking the high road in politics is like bringing a pea shooter to a machine gun fight.
OK. Sketch out for me how you are going to lie your way into convincing them to vote the way you think you they should.
My favorite liberal lie currently is the one about the Republicans being obstructionists. Every time a debt/budget situation comes up, the House passes bill after bill and the Senate shoots it down while saying “C’mon, stop being so obstructionist. Pass something we like, already.” Just last week, the Republicans were all ready to go on a payroll tax cut extension, but the Democrats wanted to obstruct an oil pipeline, so we got more gridlock. Dems were blocking a tax cut (read: stimulus) and a shovel-ready job-creating project, and the SDMB still thinks the Pubs are the ones holding things up.
This is another liberal lie. They like to define a person’s “best interest” as being the one that transfers the most wealth instead of the one that’s the fairest, and then claim that people aren’t voting in their best interest. Well, no shit.
That’s another thing about liars, they like to call other people liars.
Let’s see:
Romney wants Mormonic Law to replace the Constitution.
Gingrich tax plan allows counting all ex-wives as dependents.
Republicans are against tax breaks for the middle class (oh wait a minute, this one’s true).
Romney supports sales tax on buying vowels on Wheel of Fortune.
It doesn’t matter what you make up, just make it damning to the other side. Lie early, lie big, lie little, lie often. Liberals need to adopt the same policy on forwarding anti-Republican glurge emails that right wingers have on forwarding emails about Obama (if it smears Obama, you hit the forward button, regardless if it’s true or not).
I’m reminded of an essay by George Orwell, Looking Back on the Spanish War:
Shouldn’t that be, Lies cannot compete with facts?
I’m not usually this pedantic but I couldn’t resist pointing that out.
Hard to know who to trust sometimes, isn’t it?
Why would that be? He’s proposing that lies are more effective that facts. Or is there some grammatical nuance that I’m missing?