Factual Q for 2005+ Honda Owners

Factual Questions
1

I drive a lot, and I have a 2005 Honda CRV approaching 100K miles. As such, I believe the timing belt (and water pump) should be coming due for replacement. However, the maintenance chart in the owner’s manual makes no mention of the timing belt (nor water pump) whatsoever. Likewise, the index offers no leads to related info on either of these parts. Furthermore, a Honda owner’s maintenance guide mimics the info on the maintenance schedule. Last, Honda’s maintenance website gives even less info than the literature!

Can any Honda owners (ideally CRV owners), eps from 2005+, tell me what their books say (or don’t say) about this? I distinctly remember my 2002 CRV book said to replace the timing belt at 105,000 miles.

This is very important to me. Replacing too soon would be a waste of money since this is an expensive repair. And, I’d like an unbiased answer from the SD (as opposed to my Honda dealer).

  • Jinx
2

According to Wikipedia, both the 2002 and 2005 CRVs used the Honda K-series engine, which do not have timing belts, so one wonders what it is you replaced on the 2002.

3

a) Wikipedia is good, but they cannot speak for Honda.
b) If there is no timing belt…what is there? :confused:
c) What about the life of my water pump in the 2005 CRV? (And, what drives the water pump?) When should the water pump be replaced (before it totally fails)?

4

Is it possible that your last CRV was a 2001? 2001 is the last year for the first generation CRV which used the Honda B-series engine, which in turn did in fact have a timing belt. The 2nd generation CRV (2002-2006) switched to the K-series engine which uses a timing chain. AFAIK most timing chains are designed to last the life of the engine.

5

If there’s no belt, then Honda most likely uses a chain. I don’t know what the interval would be, but its not something you want to screw around with, as if it breaks, you’re basically out an engine. Honda (and most car makers these days) use “interference” engines, which means when the timing belt/chain breaks, the pistons slam into the heads.

6

Actually, let me rephrase that. You should not need to replace a timing chain unless there’s some noticeable sign that it is failing. I’m sure many timing chains do not in fact last the life of the engine.

7

Engines use either a timing belt or a timing chain - engineer’s choice. There are pros and cons to each.

Timing belts have replacement intervals. Used to be 60,000 miles for most, years ago (I think it may have been 40,000 on the 60’s era Pontiac overhead cam engine), nowadays over 100,000 seems typical. It does vary specifically with the particular engine, and generally with the year of the vehicle.

I have never seen a manufacturer-suggested replacement interval on a timing chain. This is not to say that they don’t wear out, but probably reflects that they typically last well over 100,000 miles and have for decades. Until a couple of decades ago that was as long as most cars were expected to run. From my experience, most engines could call for a timing chain replacement in the 150-200,000 mile range for preventive maintenance. A few particular engine types often needed it at about half that mileage, but they generally signalled such by making noise. Nevertheless, it’s not unheard of for a timing chain to cause a no-start condition (possibly bending valves if it’s an interference engine) without having given any warning symptoms. On the other hand, it’s not common enough for manufacturers to have listed it on their maintenance schedules.

8

What he said, with one correction. some engines use timing gears instead of a belt or chain.
Timing chains rarely fail without warning. Unlike belts which can fail with zero warning.
Usually a timing chain will make a very noticeable noise prior to failure. That is the good news. The bad news is on many cars the repair requires the removal of the cylinder head, and is spendy.

About the water pump, I would probably just let it be until it either starts making noise,or leaking.

9

I forgot to address the water pump, but in a nutshell, Rick is right.

On many engines with timing belts, the timing belt has to be removed to access the water pump. While the water pump is probably still okay when the first timing belt replacement is called for, the likelihood is that it will fail before the second belt replacement. It’s much more economical to go ahead and replace it while doing the first timing belt than to do it separately when it fails.

Furthermore, on some designs the water pump is actually driven by the timing belt. In this case, if the pump locks up it can ruin the timing belt. If it’s an interference engine, that can be very costly. It’s generally a false economy to not replace the water pump along with the timing belt.

On timing chain engines (with the exception of Saturn engines where the pump is driven by the chain, which is an unusual design), the water pump can be replaced separately for not much more than doing it while replacing the chain. There’s just not the same incentive to replace the water pump along with the timing chain.

I have never seen a water pump listed on a manufacturer’s maintenance schedule. Replacing it while doing the timing belt is a notion generated by field experience, for the reasons mentioned above.

10

Ok, let me clarify: I was using timing “belt” vs. “chain” to mean the same part. Regardless, the maintenance book on the 2002 CRV did, without doubt, call out a scheduled maintenance on this item. As for the water pump, the book may not have called this out; however, I’ve been told it is best to swap it out at this point to save on the labor.

As for a chain that never needs replacement for life of the engine, at least in the first 120,000 miles (let’s say)…that’s hard for me to believe. Even metal will fatigue, etc. (Just how thick is this chain?) I thought there were no warning signs of failure AND no way to visually inspect this part. Plus, I’ve heard failure of this part can have catastrophic results.

Based on this perspective, I was wondering what the SD might now have to say. Thanks to all who reply, Jinx

11

In case you hadn’t found it already, H(onda) and A(cura) may be useful. The website is down for repair at the moment but you might like to bookmark it.

I have an Element and belong to a forum dedicated to it. There are CR-V forums as well. Here are the results of a yahoo search:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-wave&p=CR-V%20forum&type=

Originally found in a Honda forum, hilarious-but-totally-unrelated-to-the-topic-at-hand: Oh, the Beemanity!

12

Ok, let me clarify: I was using timing “belt” vs. “chain” to mean the same part.
Well, they perform the same basic function, but they are different designs. It’s analogous to automatic vs. manual transmission - maintenance requirements and repair procedures are different.

Regardless, the maintenance book on the 2002 CRV did, without doubt, call out a scheduled maintenance on this item.
I don’t have an explanation for this. My info shows the 2002 CRV had the 2.4 liter timing chain engine, and doesn’t have timing chain replacement in the maintenance schedule. If your car did indeed have a timing chain rather than belt, and did indeed list it on the maintnenance schedule, that’s a new one on me.

As for a chain that never needs replacement for life of the engine, at least in the first 120,000 miles (let’s say)…that’s hard for me to believe. Even metal will fatigue, etc. (Just how thick is this chain?)
As mentioned, timing chains do fail, just typically not as soon as timing belts. On American V8 and L6 engines, they are quite thick, in the 1/2"-3/4" neighborhood. On Asian and European engines, they’re closer in size to (but still beefier than) bicycle chains. Most often they stretch significantly rather than break outright. When they stretch, they can develop enough play to jump teeth on their sprockets.

I thought there were no warning signs of failure AND no way to visually inspect this part.
Often there are no obvious warning signs. Sometimes, there is noise from a stretched chain slapping around. Sometimes, a stretched chain jumps one or two teeth which causes poor running (jumping more teeth will result in the engine not running at all). While a direct visual inspection is generally not possible without major disassembly, the amount of stretch can usually be gauged by turning the crankshaft back and forth while watching the camshaft (or something connected to it) for motion.

Plus, I’ve heard failure of this part can have catastrophic results.
Yes, on an interference engine the valves will bend (expensive repair) if the chain breaks or jumps enough teeth.

Based on this perspective, I was wondering what the SD might now have to say.
Pretty much the same thing: there’s no official replacement interval, but it’s reasonable to consider replacement as a preventive measure in the 150-200,000 mile range.

13

Hmm, I have to wonder if the 105,000 miles recommendation in the 2002 CRV Honda book wasn’t a misprint! (It does seem like an odd number, but it wasn’t just printed…it was a dot on a timeline sliced into boxes with a mileage scale across the top.) Still, maybe they meant 150,000 miles since 105,000 is an odd number!

14

If the base oil change is every 7500 miles the first service past 100,000 miles is 105,000 miles. For several years that was the mileage at which we changed the rubber timing belt on Volvos.

15

105,000 miles was the timing belt interval for Honda engines of that era. I’d think it much more likely that there was a listing for changing the timing belt - even if it did not apply because the car had a timing chain - than that there was any interval ever published for a timing chain.